Thread: Tips for Newbie Huanyang VFD users

I think Mach3 shuts down both at the same time - it is what is buffered that caused my problem.
A manual tool changer or better an ATC is probably never going to happen with these types of spindles. First hurdle is making a tool holder to adapt or fit a ER16 taper. You need a drawbar otherwise you may as well just keep the current ER16 collet setup. I have discussed the possibility of EDM up the guts of the spindle and using a high tensile bike spoke with a pnuematic solenoid as a drawbar but the reality is all this is a lot of work and is unlikely to happen.
Given demand created the current spindle it might be that they change the design for ATC capability in the future.
Thinking aloud more than making a statement here.

True, ATC is really just a far off dream. But in that dream I would do something like this:

http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/links_videos.html

Idea being the drawbar is the spring on the holder and an external pneumatic claw is used to compress this spring... therefore no need for a thru shaft. In the rapid changer I don't really see how he gets enough clamping force with the weak spring shown. But it does seem to work. Now machine the rear to look like a ER20 taper and bobs ya uncle... maybe.

All paper theories at this point.... gotta finish the machine first.

They do seem popular.. now that I have one I see them everywhere in the Youtube videos.


Cheers

Mark

Tthanks for the link mark
I haven't seen that before and it has potential. If you look close you can see a collar at the top of the collet and there might be fingers inside the holder which might be how he gets the pressure on the taper. The spring and collar might be a retaining ring for the fingers.
In any case a very neat idea.

Yeah it is neat huh. I don't know how well they work, they hold only ER16 collets and he has a 10k rpm limit but very cool non the less. Could be using ballbearings like you have in a pneumatic quick connect.

Here's how I've dreamed it up on my 1 hour drive home... (if anybody makes this i get one free ok)

You use the existing taper on the spindle and create a housing that has 3 claws that pivot downwards as they draw the tool holder in (I'd want ER20 so you can use 1/2" router bits), Use belville washers for the force which should make balancing easier and will exert a lot more force that a wound spring. The idea of the pivoting claws is that centrifigal force will make them pull even harder as rpm goes up... this is how our plate lockups work on the printing press at work. I would sacrifice the manual ease of changing bits for higher holding power so the machine would need to us an ATC. Like I stated earlier an air cylinder / fork arrangement would disengage the tool holder.

I might just CAD this up for the fun of it and see what one of the tool makers at work says.. or laughs.

Anybody know how much force is required to pull a taper in properly?

If you could do all this...
Adapt to any ER20 or greater spindle
Use ER20 as your standard tool holder so you can use 1/2" router bits
Have a 24k rpm limit
Make it cost less than a space shuttle

You would have a pretty well selling product IMHO.

Cheers

Mark

Well after straying pretty far from the thread topic I thought I had better post something VFD related and what I've learnt today.

Had a long chat with one of our sparkies and have got a better understanding of some of the settings and how this thing works. First off he reckons its a 2 pole motor but this setting did not seem to change anything PD143

Some basics. The VFD takes AC in converts it to DC then reconverts it back to a variable AC with different voltages and frequencies to the input AC.
The internal DC bus has a limit, which when exceded trips out the VFD and you get one of those undeciphered errors. As the motor decelerates it has to dissipate the energy its creating somewhere and for the most part it is handled by the internals of the VFD. If however you decelerate really fast or have a large inertial load then the bus voltage will exceed its limit and tries to shunt the excess to the external braking resistor... no resistor and the VFD trips out and you are forced to slow down less agressively. DC braking is something different, It is commonly termed "pluging' and is when you don't just put on the brakes but ram the transmission into reverse by aplying a DC voltage to the motor... result is great holding torque but generates heat. It is also only applicable when the motor is going a max of 10hz or in our case 600 rpm... ie almost stopped anyway. See PD029 PD030

You can see this DC voltage fluctuation by setting PD171 to 001 or 003 if you want to see the AC out aswell. Set it to 007 and then choose what else you want to see with PD170

There is a legend a the front of the manual which shows what is what on the display and you can cycle thru them using the >> key
Now select DC voltage and start up the spindle... mine ramps up to 345.6 V give or take at 24k rpm and spikes up to 380 maybe 390Vdc when I pull up the motor in 0.8s (PD015)

So bottom line you don't need a resistor unless you want to pull big loads up real fast. I'll probably still do it as I like the idea and will report back on how it goes once I get one (bloody things cost $72 at RS!!)

Again I can't stress enough that I am not an expert in this stuff and mileage may vary. I don't want someone to get steered wrong and fry their gear and come back to blame me if i've made a typo or missunderstood whats going on.

BTW the running time display on my controller shows... 65535hours!!! me thinks its rolled over?


Cheers

Mark

Day two and a bit more testing.

Been playing with the internal contactors and opto outputs as configured with PD050 thru PD053 and also the analog outputs PD054

I'm playing with these as I will use one of the contacts to start the cooling pump when in run mode (one less switch to worry about). As shown in the schematic at the begining of the manual relay K is normally open with the common being KB. Relay F has both n.o. (FC) and n.c. (FA) terminals and common (FB)

Now here's the thing.... K is there and works fine as programmed but relay F is AWOL on my unit. You can see the relays just to the left of the green terminal strip and on mine the silkscreen is there but no component. (must have fell out during shipping ) Anybody else have the same thing? If I need another relay I might just add it but I'll fire off an email to Chai to see what he reckons first.

I havent connected pullups to the open collector opto outputs (DRV,UPF) but they do appear to work based on the slight leakage voltage I can see when they activate.

I havent tried all the various configs of PD050-PD053 but a couple do not appear to work ... 08 and 09 (in accel or decel) don't seem to work (again not a biggie as I don't plan on using them) but 01 (in run), 02 (fault) and 05 (at speed) all are good and these are more usefull to me.

This may be a version issue as the manual talks about ver2.0 yet my unit is ver1.0

The labeling is a bit out on the analog outputs. I don't have a AM terminal but the voltage appears between ACM (common / ground?) and VO. The voltages are about 10x too small even though PD055 is set to 100% but they do change as per settings. The onboard ref 10vdc on terminal 10V does sink a bit as the motor spins up and loads the VFD but not alot.

Hope these ramblings help someone out.

Cheers

Mark

If i remember i'll check mine tonight to confirm, but from memory i don't recall seeing one present on mine either.

Side note, why the hell do they not put a clip or something that will allow you to tie a cable tie too, so the wires coming in can be pulled without ripping them out of the screw terminals

I lucked out at work and now have a braking resistor but i'll be damned if I can make it work.

I'm looking high and low for a setting that might trigger its use but so far without sucess. On the up side I should have the last pages of the manual translated sometime next week thanks to the girlfried of one of my workmates.This hopefully will shed some light on the various error codes and the mysteries of braking resistors.

In my search for the hidden on button I've tweaked a few other parameters also.

Now if I'm reading it right the standard V/F curve setup with PD005 thru PD010 uses the default values for V (220, 13, 6.5... PD008, 009 and 010) and I had changed the max frequency PD005 to 400hz but had forgotton the other two. The graphs show the frequency settings as 50, 2.5 and 0.5 but if we change the upper limit from 50 to 400 then to keep the same curve the intermediate PD006 should be 20 and the min PD007 , 4.0

Ok I decided to dig a bit deeper and guess what?! Mystery solved, more bits missing. The PR and P+ terminals go nowhere... yes I pulled my VFD apart

So it looks like this model does not have the ability to use a breaking resistor... unless your one has a few more bits than mine.

At a quick glance I'm missing Q23 (unknown power transistor), PC11 (unknown IC) and a jumper to...(you guessed it unknown spot)

Geez I'm glad I didn't fork out $72 for a power resistor.

So I'm back to playing with curves to improve stopping umpfff.

Oh yeah I dont see any thermo type elements on the heat sink either so thats why the inverter temperature is not available.

Now don't get me wrong I'm still happy as larry over this VFD but I am starting to see why they are so inexpensive.
If everyones is the same I'd say its a model thing but if there are differences out there then its a poor QC thing. The only listing I get on the internet for this VFD tend to be auction sites so makes me think this is a bunch of dumped gear that had QC issues.

Anyway.. save your money and don't buy that resistor!

Cheers

Mark

Here's some pics of the missing bits if anyone wants to check theirs. Questions have been sent to Chai

You can see if these bits are there without tearing the whole thing apart if you have the front access panel off.

Cheers

Mark

Originally Posted by rodm

Tthanks for the link mark
I haven't seen that before and it has potential. If you look close you can see a collar at the top of the collet and there might be fingers inside the holder which might be how he gets the pressure on the taper. The spring and collar might be a retaining ring for the fingers.
In any case a very neat idea.

I've had one of these for a week now. The main body has about five 6mm ball bearings that hold the tool . When the outer cover is raised, the pressure is taken off the balls and the holder can be removed.

I'll bring it along to the CncBBQ

Cheers,


Peter.

Thanks Peter,
Makes sense.
I would like to go to the BBQ but fares are a bit steep probably due to it being an AFL weekend. Maybe next time.

Are there any of you fella's using the 0 to 10V out of their break out board from Mach3 to control the speed of their VFD?
Do you have any tips?
cheers
rosco

Rosco

I use a different VFD but the principals are just the same. Yes I run 0 to 10v control from Mach via one of Peter Homann's Digispeed DC06 boards.

My BoB does not have this built in, from reading your post maybe yours does.

Greg

Mmmmm, Peter the quiet achiever!