H&F ST-12D AKA W454 12" Table Saw

**brisbanefitter** · 16th December 2009, 11:02 PM

a short note to give some insight into the shipping.
Here in BRISBANE we offer several different methods of delivery, these are the most common:

1. Metro- general carrier or point to point courier- if you can unload whatever weight it is off the back of a normal size ute or truck. by unload I mean within reasonable time. if the carrier can offer it, we can request a tailgate loader to deliver it to get it to the ground on site but this usually attracts a surcharge of some kind

2. out of brisbane- general carrier to your door if you can unload it, nearest local depot of whoever carrier is where you can collect in your trailer, ute etc and get it home, unload at your convenience.
if this is not convenient AND the carrier can offer it, we can request tailgate loader from depot to your door where they can get it to the ground, some of them even offer local crane truck services but this is usually also at a surcharge.

3. Metro- crane truck. This WILL be expensive but if you cant unload something and you want it put as close as possible to where it will be used (depends on your access as to how close it can get) some times this is convenient. Here in Brisbane, the guys we use have the capacity to deliver anything from a small lathe to a 10,000kg pressbrake, this sort of versatility from a carrier attracts cost, they have the equipment and the people who are capable of and often are moving whole factories across town. These guys know our equipment and how to lift, move etc without damaging it (unless they have an oops which isnt often at all).
Tailgate loader on a point to point courier will usually be cheaper than a truck with a hiab type crane on it.

4. there is a guy up here who operates a small trailer that can lift a pallet up off the ground and onto the trailer. at your end he simply puts the pallet on the ground as close as he can get to where you want it. He is priced reasonably and can usually be booked at around 3-4 days notice.

I do not know who the Melbourne guys use for freight to all the different locations they ship to, I can only tell you what we do up here.
In Brisbane we look for the most cost efficient method of delivery that will get you the machine in one piece and will not result in angry truck drivers taking it back to the depot because it cant be unloaded quickly (this has happened).
We also always give the customer the option to arrange their own freight with whoever they wish. We offer the service, at rates determined by carriers not us, they charge us, we charge you, its a real cost to our business, we pass this onto the end user.
If a customer chooses not to use the carriers who we run accounts with it is entirely their choice. In many cases a customer can and will find cheaper freight and arrange it themselves.

Lastly,
I cannot explain the scuff marks on the machine, I am pretty sure this unit has never been out of the crate, the display unit in Brisbane is 415v, there fore this would not have been out of the crate in its life to the best of my knowledge.

With regard to inventory management, we have a system that is reliable.
Dont know why you were told no machines available, cant speak for Melbourne or the staff down there, other than Brisbane does not often send machines to Melbourne especially if they have been shipped to Brisbane from Sydney first. Shipping machines all over the place costs us money, and we try really hard not to transfer stock Melbourne to Brisbane or Brisbane to Melbourne. Sydney is HQ, we draw a lot of our stock from there and we land some containers into Brisbane and Melbourne also. This will be why you were charged some freight to get it from Brisbane to Melbourne, because it probably went Sydney to Brisbane first, and its not normal practice to be shipping machines Brisbane to Melbourne
Beyond this, chances of damage in transit increases the further it travels, the more times it travels, a broken machine turning up at the other end is no good to anybody.

hope this explains something, maybe.

**Bismar** · 17th December 2009, 09:05 PM

So got around to mounting the tablesaw wings today, and that wasn't too hard.

All was going fine till i hit a major problem.

Basically H&F sent me a sawblade by overnight shipping from Sydney because they didn't have any at Melbourne.

As a picture is worth a thousand words, this describes my problem. *Glares at folks in Sydney*

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l...tabeee/saw.jpg

Soo, thats kinda annoying. Sigh looks like i'll have to wait till Monday for my blade as couriers don't deliver on weekends :/

**YeahNah** · 17th December 2009, 10:18 PM

Strange indeed. By blade was shipped with the unit. It had the correct 30mm hole. While I wouldn't say it's a top notch blade, at least it fits and it works.

You're not having much luck there Bismar

**YeahNah** · 17th December 2009, 10:26 PM

They've sent you the 305mm instead of the 300mm, which is odd as the 305mm is more expensive (and wrong). https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=W400B

**Horaldic** · 17th December 2009, 11:00 PM

Just read through this discussion and it reminded me of another of my recent investigations, getting a water tank delivered. I was looking at a quite expensive "craning in" however I got given a list of prices by a firm linking to some more than reasonable carriers and crane operators. I would highly recommend to anyone who is contemplating buying machinery to get independent quotes for transport and craning.

Some of the prices quoted when you go through the machinery dealers make the whole exercise seem unaffordable, whereas if you arrange transport and craning yourself prices are much more reasonable. E.g. for a heavy lift with a 26 metre reach (capable of going over a house) prices started at only $200.

I'm not even remotely associated with this type of business and just came across this investigating the lift for a tank.

**brisbanefitter** · 18th December 2009, 09:29 PM

horadic,
I agree, I suggest people get their own quotes for transport.
We offer it (Hare and forbes) as part of the service but rates are determined by those whom we have accounts with, and we run accounts with people who can shift 1kg down the road 1km, to guys who can shift 10,000kg 1800km up the road. we dont run accounts with every single carrier in town and we choose those who can best suit what we require which varies daily according to the above.
By best suit it means guys who can do the job within 2-3 days of the sale at the most, usually next day is preffered, which narrows the field even more.

The last thing we want is for freight to stop a customer from purschasing our goods and make them go elsewhere, as i said IN BRISBANE, we find the most affordable freight that can COMPETANTLY do the job and have the goods shipped in a sensible manner ie. not send chaepest way to residential where ti will take customer 2 hours to unload because they have to dismantle the goods to unload bit by bit, transport company will charge you for this time, if they happen to hang around this long.

**allisa** · 21st December 2009, 05:18 PM

Good review YeaNah, and glad you like the saw. Yeah, i do plan on getting this saw, I am going to make this deal after Christmas.

**Bismar** · 25th December 2009, 08:26 PM

So ok, more experiences with the table saw.

Due to having insufficient wiring/power requirements, i still haven't actually ran the saw.

I however have done some alignment and measurements of the saw.

Arbor runout was found to be just a tad over 0.002", and the trunnions were found to be factory aligned with the back 0.003" away from the fence.

Since thats normally whats recommended to avoid burnouts on the wood, i left it alone. According to a few sites, the arbor runout looks to be a little high, but we'll see.

Blade + arbor runout was found to be around 0.005" in total, which is quite a lot. I'll have to buy a better blade once our dollar goes back up again.

I don't have any experiences with the original fence as its still in the box, BUT thats because i installed a Incra fence. The mitre gauge is likewise still in its original packaging.

The Incra fence was fun to set up, (ahh the joys of a well written and illustrated manuel *glares at H&F* ) although it seems weird that the part used to align the fence mounting arms is later irreversibly used to mount the LS Positioner base, meaning that if you wanted to realign it, or change table saws, you might need to buy another pair. That or ruin the skids you stick onto it and buy those instead (probably cheaper too).

I was a little dissapointed as the runout from the mitre guides when the LS Positioner is locked can be anywhere from 0.001" to 0.02" No that is not a typo 0.02". When the front knob is tightened however its around 0.02".

But before anyone mentions that you are meant to lock the knob when sawing, i ask you this, if the runout is anywhere from 0.001" to 0.02", locking it down will be anywhere in that range, unless u were to break out your saw gauge every single time you want to align the fence to the blade.

My fence also had a dip in the middle that can be visually seen, and is ~ 0.003" deep relative to both ends. Depending how much of an issue this turns out to be once i get an electrician to rewire my place, i might have to bug Grahame at WWS.

It should be noted that the mounting arms that hold the rails, are in the way of the mitre slot limiting movement in both directions. Time to break out the dremel me thinks.

O and also for some silly reason while everything that is frequently adjusted uses hex nuts, the red base of the LS Positioner isn't. It still uses the archaic phillips screw head, which i have already almost threaded just from aligning the LS Positioner system.

The mitre gauge was likewise a breeze to set up, even with the shimming required to get it to be 90 degrees to the table. The shop stop seems to be an awesome feature with the included scale due to Incra's patented track system. More info and pics on this later.

I also purchased a Router Raizer for my triton which i just finished but haven't had time to get some pics/ mount the router into a table etc etc.. So i'll get back on this later.

**YeahNah** · 11th January 2010, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by allisa

Good review YeaNah, and glad you like the saw. Yeah, i do plan on getting this saw, I am going to make this deal after Christmas.

Thanks Allisa. I think you'll be pretty happy with the Saw.

A further update now that I've had a chance to use the saw on a project (built myself a built in computer desk).

It is super powerful and does not show any sign of slowing down no matter what wood I put through it or how thick.

Dust exctraction is so so though. Anything that goes under the table gets sucked up pretty well, but there is a fair old smattering of saw dust that goes over the table too. Not super fine stuff, but the larger saw dust. As there is no dust extraction in the hood, it would likely benefit from the saw guard hood with a 60mm dust extraction chute that's available as an after market accessory. not super keen on parting with more hard earned than I need to though. https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pr...stockCode=W459

When I've bought a new rip blade I will see if the problem is in the saw design or just with the quality of the blade that came with the machine. It's not a massive big deal, but even my old Triton didn't spit up any saw dust on the top of the machine bench, so I want to address it.

I am looking forward to Bismar's thoughts on his machine.

**Bismar** · 11th January 2010, 06:38 PM

Make take awhile found out the wiring into my house is either 32 or 45 amps, and seeing as i need to run the saw and dust compressor at the same time... which is about 28 amps.. it won't happen.

Had 3 electricians quoted so far, and have gone ahead, but apparently the paperwork will take 2 weeks as the inspectors have to check it, after new wiring is done from the street.

I will do a in-depth review though, once i get it up and running. I've already done some measurements in two of my posts if that helps new buyers.

But yeah, Yeahnah, i reckon we can get some steel tubing and perspex and make a better dust collection unit for under $50.

**YeahNah** · 11th January 2010, 09:59 PM

All the best with the wiring Bismar. I hope it isn't February before you actually get to use the new saw.

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