Thread: G'day folks...help with old english oak desk please.

Hi all, and especially Lawry, sorry mate for being a little absent from this thread, had a busy weekend. Went and had a look on Saturday at this magnificant property called Shene (they have their website) as part of the Heritage Council Open Doors festival and on Sunday needed to spend time with the other half. She demanded my time

Right so back to your desk, from what I have read, you really seem to be on track and I am perfectly happy with the advice from Woodwould, he is on the money. If you have never used shellac before (and I take it being a novice to this sort of thing perhaps you havn't) don't be afraid of it. It really is very straight forward to use.

If you buy the pre made solution in a bottle that certainly is the easy way of doing this, and especially if you only need it for this project. On the other hand if you think you may want to do more such projects than buy the flakes, and metho from Bunnings/Mitre 10/wherever and mix your own as it will work out more economically.

Basically if you mix your own, use an old plastic icecream container or similar, and poor in a generous amount of flakes and cover with metho. You need more metho than flakes. Allow them to dissolve. Depending on conditions and quantities it should take somewhere around 20-30mins until it is ready.

I normally like to make a slightly thicker solution, say the consistency of milk or thereabouts. Too thin a solution and it will take many coats to build up to the finish you would be happy with. Too thick and it can be a little difficult to use. Hence, the suggestion to buy pre-made as you can avoid this issue. Though once you have a little experience with it, this won't be a problem.

In terms of application, because it is metho based it flashes off very quickly. I normally start application by using a paint brush and as needed thereafter will make a pad with lint free cloth and rub on. Generally try to follow the grain, also on the vertical surfaces always look out for any runs and try to rub these in.

High end French polishers from my understanding will only use a pad (with a solidish core) wrapped in lint free material and normally use a figure of 8 configuration. The good thing is that it is pretty forgiving.

I normally start off by applying 3-4 coats, allowing just enough time between applications to flash off, and then allow to properly dry off. If at anytime it feels tacky, leave it to dry properly.

Once I have done this stage, I normally rub back (either with fine grade paper) or fine grade steel wool. I then re-coat 3-4 coats and go through the same process.

From my experience the best final results come from the more applications. The finish should tell you when it has sufficient. As I build up the coats and/or if the shellac solution is becoming a little too 'thick" I normally dilute down a little with more meths before continuing coating.

The final stage is to buff off with 0000 grade steel wool and then wax polish. One coat should be sufficient but two even better. Again if you are having any problems in getting the polish off, change cloths as they can become clogged with polish.

Re: Conolly hide food, yes it is superb for leathers, and is highly recommended normally for re-invigorating old and dried leathers. Would it work in this instance I am not sure but I can't see why not. I don't think I would really be too keen on applying bees wax to old leather and trying to buff it off. I just don't know how this might work, it could be ok ??

Last word of advice here, please when you can post more pictures, especially of it finished. Look forward to seeing this. All the best.

Hi folks..Hi Horsecroft. Had a look at Shene...what an amazing homestead. Would love to go there whenever I hit Tassy!! The history in this place must be so rich, and no doubt the 'ghosts' have many stories to tell!

Horsecroft..you're obviously also a bit of a mind reader...yes, the advice from Woodwould and from you is amazing..and yes...shellac/ french polish..I AM afraid!! I was reading about application and started o get a litle concened that it was a bit too much for my experience, specially the few things I've read aboput applying in one smooth, straight stroke, and only overlapping marginallhy etc. This is obviously NOT like painting, where I can repeatedly move the brush up & down on the same area to get full cover etc. This is where Woodwould's tip of a very good brush is spot on..ideas on what sort?? But reading both your posts again now, and some of he info on the Ubeaut site, I reckon I'm (almost) ready to try. Any recommendations around how to shellac in and around the more intricate carved areas? Is this a matter of dabbing the brush around the contours etc? And of course, any extra tips for greenhorns using this product would be lapped up !I am thinking I might try the flakes, as I am ken to do more of this! It is a little addictive.

Hope to be able to get to this in the next few days, and am looking forward to being able to post some amazing photos. I'm amazed that others are keen to follow our copius postings, buit its all good.

Regards, Lawry

Heh heh Lawry, for sure Shene is pretty special, and I reckon you would be about right re ghosts or at very least the walls talking. The stables (the largest/grandest of the buildings there is spectacular. Having said that the shear breadth of historic buildings in Tas is a little mind blowing. I believe the Tasmanian Heritage Council have something like 4000 buildings permanantly listed.

Our property Horsecroft (hence my moniker), as per the photos previously shown on this thread is also listed given it dates back to 1826 and like Shene was nominated for the National Estate. Shene being far more significant is listed on the NE. Obviously also there are far more historic buildings around the place then are listed on the Tas Heritage Register.

If you ever get down here, give us a call (PM me) would be more than happy to catch up for a chat.

Now re shellac, good on ya. Thought you might have got the bug. I too started off like yourself. The first time I tried this, I really had no idea what I was doing but I soon caught on.

Regarding the coating process, that is what I think I might have been referring to. There is a lot of comment been made in various places as to how hard it is to "French Polish", but for the purposes to which you need to go with the desk, nah it is pretty straight forward and really forgiving. That is the beauty with the stuff. Basically I normally start of coating pretty liberally with the mixture and not worrrying about brush strokes, you can pretty much go in any direction you wish, though following the grain is better. You don't really need to overlap your previous stroke etc. However, saying this much as noted previously, always keep an eye out for any runs, or similar in the coating and work them in. As long as it is wet you can keep on working it. In respect of the tricky carvings and moulded areas etc, this is why using a brush in the first instance is really helpful. Dabbing it to start with is not a bad idea, but from thereafter treat as per the rest of the surfaces.

Once you have a good basic shellac coated surface, you can always move onto a pad. The pad minimises any risk of brush strokes remaining on a surface, not that this really should be a problem.

High end French Polishers, as I mentioned, and as I understand only use a pad, and are very finicky with the number of coats, the level of keying back between stages, the viscosity of the shellac mixture etc. The thing to remember, is that the more coats you apply, the more keying back between stages, and the more the number of stages applied, let alone, at the end the level of rubbing back with 0000 steel wool, the higher the degree of shine and depth of finish that you will achieve.

For instance if wanted a slightly duller finish, what I do, is actually dip the steel wool into the wax and polish it on and buff off in one process. Alternatively if I want a high gloss finish I dry buff the finish with steel wool and then apply wax and bufff off. Hope that makes sense.

Lastly re your question of paint brushes, I would tend to suggest that you use a decent bristle brush (not a cheap and nasty one with nylon bristles), and probably for your project no wider than say 30-40mm brush width.

Not to distract from the advise been given, I would like to add something on the mix of Shellac from flakes.

Personally I also filter this through a coffee filter. Dissolve in one jar with a lid mixing until little or no flakes are left, I might leave overnight to settle and in another jar where the coffee filter is secured to the jar I pour the contains into that jar.

As you pour from the mixing jar to the filting jar it becomes thicker and slower to filter. I might leave this over night to filter with lid on the filting jar.

Great tip thanks Christos. And an easy one too!

Originally Posted by Christos

Not to distract from the advise been given, I would like to add something on the mix of Shellac from flakes.

Personally I also filter this through a coffee filter. Dissolve in one jar with a lid mixing until little or no flakes are left, I might leave overnight to settle and in another jar where the coffee filter is secured to the jar I pour the contains into that jar.

As you pour from the mixing jar to the filting jar it becomes thicker and slower to filter. I might leave this over night to filter with lid on the filting jar.

Thanks Christos, yes indeed quite correct, excellent advice. Some Shellac flake mixes can have a level of rubbish in them. Also as you use a shellac mix on a project, but return some back to your storage vessel when finished (if not all used up in any one instance) this too can contain debris (ie. dirt, dust, hairs etc). So, perhaps on occasions wise to re-filter your solution to keep it clean.

Great post, glad you are keeping it public! Really appreciate all of the good advice, and patiently looking forward to more photos!

Quick progress report (as I know a couple are wtching this thread!) Have just done the sanding sealer, and waiting for it to dry to then sand back, clean up ready for shellac.
QUestion about using shellac....will it turn the timber an orange tone? If so, given that the timber is english oak, would I be better to use a wax with a stronger/ darker tint, or stick with neutral? WW suggested cedar....reddish?

Hi Lawry, was waiting to read an update, but figured you must have been plenty busy. Re the shellac, there is an element of both yes and no in this. Orange shellac if used on old timbers, that have previously had another finish on them (paints, varnishes, shellacs etc), from my experience will result in a darker colour coming through. With pine for instance, normally it will result in the appearance of rich golden sort of colour. However, when applied to cedar, it doesn't seem to do anything untowards and the natural dark reddish to lighter brown colours of the timber will prevail. With Tas oak (not English), it will tend to bring out the darker brown colours of the timber but only as you increase the number of coating/applications. Being a hardwood it seems to absorb the colours of the shellac slower.

With new timbers it is yet another story.

I havn't to date tried re-shellacing english oak but going on the desk my other half has I would have thought that rather than making it look orange, it would be more likely to bring out the variety of brown colours of the timber. English oak when new is almost whitish in appearance but with age, changes to darker browns, verging into really dark/red colours. Hence I can understand WW suggestions re the use of cedar wax polish rather than say neutral.

The other thing you could also aways consider is the use of stain addition to your shellac mix, (ie. oak if available or walnut) but for the beginner I would be careful in this, as it is too easy to over use the stain and therefore not get the result you want, and/or just suffer simple application issues including runs in the shellac mix (if that makes sense). Re -colouring wood is a skill in-itself.

If I can make one suggestion, if there are any areas of the desk that are less likely to be seen than the exposed outer surfaces you could perhaps always try them first to see how well the shellac works, and/or even taking it through to the waxing stage.

I for one, have always been happy with orange shellacs and as rule mostly use neutral/clear waxes rather than tinted ones. I have used cedar tinted waxes but find much of the colour seems to come off when you buff to shine.

Next Installment....have just finished the first 2 coats of shellac, and reasonably happy with result so far. I'm about to put on a 3rd. I do, however, have some areas that have run, are a bit thick, etc. I assume that after the 3rd coat, and a day of drying, I can take that back a little with 000 or 0000 wool? (with or without metho?) and then continue with my coats. So far I've been using a brish, buit would like to attempt a pad I think.
I do like how the grain has come up, and the colour I've ben able to get

Some of you may also be intrigued by the trolley jack under the desk..well..it actually has a bowed top, and I am trying to let it straighten out a little...any further ideas on this issue apprecuiated by the way!
Also..went to the Brisbane wood show Friday...fantastic to see all the folks there, and talk with some of the folks like Neil from U Beaut, Dave from Howards, Bob from this forum etc.

It's looking well.

I would gingerly sand back any runs with some 600 grit wet or dry paper before proceeding with the third coat. And don't create any further runs!

Originally Posted by Woodwould

It's looking well.

I would gingerly sand back any runs with some 600 grit wet or dry paper before proceeding with the third coat. And don't create any further runs!

Aye Aye sir! Further runs are to be frowned upon from this point forwards in this household!!

I assume I wait for it to dry before sanding back (gingerly!) ...and byt he way.... thanks for your 'its looking well' comment! I take that as a pass from you!!

Originally Posted by Lawry01

Aye Aye sir! Further runs are to be frowned upon from this point forwards in this household!!

I assume I wait for it to dry before sanding back (gingerly!)

Correct. Use a little soapy water to lubricate the paper and prevent it gumming up with what may still be soft polish inside the dribbles. Wipe it dry and inspect progress frequently as the water will make it look a lot better than it really is.

Originally Posted by Lawry01

... thanks for your 'its looking well' comment! I take that as a pass from you!!

As you wish.

X1 for what Woodwould has advised, and yes try not to allow the shellac to make runs as they are a bit of a pain in the you know what to cut back.

Love how well the grain is coming through and the colour of the wood, especially if you compare how it looks now to when you first started, where it was the opposite. For me the test, to know when you are happy with it is two fold. Are you happy with the depth of colour/shine (before 0000 steel wool cutback and bees wax polish) and two how does it feel to your fingers when you rub them across the surface.

If it feels relatively smooth before cutting back, to me that is time to stop applying shellac and get ready to polish. On the other hand if it feels rough/coarse, then perhaps you need to cut back and apply a little more shellac coats.

I can't figure out how else to explain this. It is almost an intuitive thing for me.

Eitherway Lawry I think you are getting really close, to the fun part, the making it feel nice and silky from polishing it all up. I am sure you are going to be very happy with this desk.