Thread: I have a problem

Strip it off and re-finish it

I second that

Yep, getting the existing finish off is step 1.
Do I need to strip it ans then sand or can I just sand it?
When I get the surface off, I will see how the bleached (and now oiled) patches stand out.
Anyone know what timber it might be? It's not a veneer.
Does it look like it has been stained or would it have perhaps darkened with age?
I will finish with Osmo hardwax oil because I have a can. My dopey friend would be keen for it to look similar to how it is now i.e. not too light in colour.

80 grit paper will be fine to strip it

It's kinda hard to say what it is from that pic, but I have a feeling it might be rubber wood. If so, it has likely been stained.

Thanks Elan. Glad I don't have to use stripper.
I just had to google rubber wood.
I'm sure the table is a 1950s one.

Just heard from the table owner that they bought it 20 years ago from a shop in Sydney called Original Finish. She reckons they made it and she thought it was blackbutt, so not as old as I thought. The chairs are 50s ones and I assumed the table was the same age.

Here are a few more photos of the table. It's an expanding table and the the middle section lifts off, so that's good - easy to brings the top home. My friend got a quote to strip and shellac that middle section and clean and wax the extensions at each end and the quote $1,810. That's why they asked for my help. I have have had a lot of meals at that table.
I would have thought that it would be better for all three sections of the table to be stripped and refinished. Your collective thoughts?
My plan is to sand with 80 and then finer and then do a couple of coats of OSMO hardwax oil. I am concerned about the patches that were affected by the bleach that my friend then used oil on. What do you reckon?
The bloke who quoted to fix it was going to finish in shellac. That indicates it might be a shellac finish? Could that be why the spilled bleach went through it so easily?
The table has a nice aged look. Sanding it will take that away. Would shellac be a way to put some of the gold colour back? Can I use OSMO over shellac to give it some durability?
I know, I know, so many questions.
I'm keen for any guidance you more experienced people may have. What should I be wary of? What could I stuff up?
I don't want to be sitting at that table down the track wishing I had thought a bit more about things before I did it. Or worse still, maybe be I won't get any more dinner invitations if I stuff it up? That would be a pity.


table3.jpgtable4.jpgtable5.jpg

From the new pics I don't think it's Blackbutt, maybe Blackwood though as that does yellow quite a lot with age

My only advice is never work for friends or family

Thanks for the input on the timber.
I'll wait in hope for other comments.

Strip it by Sanding it with 80 grit paper ! That's the stuff of furniture restoration horror stories.

First . Your mate and the bleach. What bleach Exactly ?
Yeah the wood looks like Blackwood . Nice looking table top as well . French polish is great .

Those spots look like its been hit with something very alkaline . Oven cleaner ? Caustic soda ? Same/ similar . That has an effect of not just dissolving the finish but also of darkening the wood . Strong detergents and Ammonia based cleaners will do the same .
White King ? Maybe that does the same ?

Now if you get the right sort of acid , sometimes just by rubbing it on will reverse the effect and the normal colour will return .

So what acid can you get hold of . Vinegar is or has acetic acid in it to some level ? not sure how much but you could try a spot . It'll be weak and hardly work at all but worth a try . Vinegar is the common neutralizer used for washing down after caustic stripping jobs .

Oxalic acid is used in deck cleaners. Its more a iron oxide dirt bleaching acid and works good on that sort of thing but this is different . If you had some to try though, why not ?

I use Hydrochloric acid for such things . Ive got a 4 lt bottle of Brick cleaning stuff and a bottle of the same for swimming pool adjustment. Dynamite strong stuff.
Its way to strong to put on straight though I have done that sometimes. Id get a small jar and tip a little in . Then another small jar with 10mm of water in the bottom . Id mix a weak solution and rub it on . Dry it off with a hair dryer or heat gun . If no effect add more acid and try again a few times.
If it does work, wash it over with clean water a few times to wash the remaining acid away and let dry.

This may work. Just try it on a few parts and see. If it does, touching up the marks with shellac, blending in and re polishing is the way forward after that.

Adjusting colours this way doesn't always work but its always worth a test . It'll be an easy fix if it does work.

If it doesn't work and stripping the whole top is going to be the way , the darker spots will probably still be there after stripping . Sanding finishes off doesn't work . The finish clogs up the paper. I would strip and then sand or strip and re plane the top .

Last week I had a big top that needed the finish gone and the acid marks that were under the finish gone . It was a reaction stain and hydrochloric acid disaster of mine that went wrong when the acid reacted with a number of patches where some steel wool had been used . The acid and steel reacted giving large black patches . I was low on stripper. Two of us had the finish and stains gone in two hours using sharp no 4 smoothing planes . Spoke shaves and cabinet scrapers. It was a big top . 3.2 x 1.2 . We sanded after that and started again with the polish job .

Rob

Rob, I appreciate very much you taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply.
The owner of the table is pretty sure the product she used initially that stripped the gloss and created the pale patches was Ajax Professional Mould killer. It was something used in the bathroom that inadvertently made its way to the living room and that table. She has since thrown it away lest she have another accident.
She then used O'Cedar oil on the pale patches which have them that sort of reddish colour.
I fear that sourcing and playing with various acids could make things worse, so stripping, sanding and refinishing could be the way to go.
The owner of the table is keen for a different finish. I have a table finished in Osmo Hardwax Oil and she likes the feel of that. She's not keen on the gloss finish her table has.
You think it has been finished in shellac? What is the best way to strip it?
Sanding I can do - I have a good sander and loads of papers go way up.
I am worried about losing the patina. Can I lay down some shellac to get the yellow back and then coat over the top with Osmo?
If I don't feel comfortable with the project, I will abort.
Thank you again for you lengthy response late last night.

That response was lengthy . I get started and just keep going sometimes . Your problem has been the way I’ve made a living since 1979 . I’m in deep .

You strip and sand that and there is no patina left to worry about . You’ve blown it all away . Unless you know how to re patinate your just going to end up with a new finish . The Flat semi gloss or dull finish of Osmo will look good compared to shiny shellac though .
The patina you have there is more than just dents and scratches and shine , it’s Also the Faded oxidised wood in a big way , something that time and light does to wood . Sanding that off is not a good idea .
You could strip By using just metho And OO steel wool , then try and treat the spots . And re finish with Osmo . Most of the patina if the wood is then kept . Stripper is faster and easier but Metho works if you know what your doing . You have to let it do the work for you and don’t do to much at once . It dries off to quick .
Playing with the acid on a ten cent piece sized bit of wood may save you 20 hours sanding . Depending on how you go about it .

Rob

The other thing you could try is washing it off then see if you can blend just the dark spots in by lightly sanding around one . Before you do the whole thing maybe .
The tabke looks like shellac . You can’t really tell unless you can touch and see It . And how it reacts when washing off as well .

Thanks again, Rob. Since 1979, huh. That's very deep - there is no getting out now.
I will do a test with metho and see whether I can confirm it's shellac.
The table owner likes the idea of a non-shellac finish.
I like the thought of doing the whole top with metho and steel wool and then giving it a light sand and a few coats of Osmo. Seems easy when you write all that in one sentence.
Would a cabinet scrapper used carefully work with the metho, too?
I've done some research and it seems Osmo over sanded shellac is unwise. Can you conirm?
Thanks again for you advice and if I do this favour I will post photos. If you were in Sydney, you would get a dinner invitation - assuming the table turns out okay.