Thread: "L" pattern maker

Originally Posted by GSRocket

Hi, It seemed every time I googled something I'd always end up here at the woodworkforums so i thought it time to join.
I needed to make patterns for things to cast in polyurethane and metals, so
I was on the lookout for lathe for awhile when I struck it lucky and a pattern makers lathe came up locally. I'd never heard of such a thing but it looked liked what I needed so bought it. It's a Marvel and very old.
Attachment 149719
This is the first time I've had contact with any sort of lathe and this forum reinforces how little I know.
The wood on the mandrel is Jelutong. The bloke that sold me the lathe put me onto Jelutong.
The drill in the picture is held by a jig and is used as a fly cutter and the motor is a apart as I'm trying to figure out the wiring to a fit a reversing switch.
The thing I'm learning about pattern making is you spend a hundred times longer thinking about and making jigs 'n things then you do making the actual pattern!
I'm looking forward to being regular here and learning a lot.

Cute little toy, I was raised in a second generation pattern shop and worked there until I went to university and on to better things. People that have never used or even seen a real Pattermakers lathe have never really experienced wood turning. When my father passed away I shut down the pattern shop and put the equipment in storage, there are truly some monsters in that building. For instance an Oliver No. 66 Gap bed and a Oliver No. 22 that will swing a 96" disk, google them, you might be impressed. These tools are available to Very serious collectors and Pattermakers only, sadly this is a profession that has all but fallen by the wayside due to outsourcing and CNC tech.

And your right about the time involved in making patterns insofar as the actual making of the pattern is really the least of it.

Nice catch on the toy esp. if it's in good shape and even if it's not it would be well worth your effort to make it so.

Welcome to the forum.

Originally Posted by swallow

Cute little toy, I was raised in a second generation pattern shop and worked there until I went to university and on to better things. People that have never used or even seen a real Pattermakers lathe have never really experienced wood turning. When my father passed away I shut down the pattern shop and put the equipment in storage, there are truly some monsters in that building. For instance an Oliver No. 66 Gap bed and a Oliver No. 22 that will swing a 96" disk, google them, you might be impressed. These tools are available to Very serious collectors and Pattermakers only, sadly this is a profession that has all but fallen by the wayside due to outsourcing and CNC tech.

And your right about the time involved in making patterns insofar as the actual making of the pattern is really the least of it.

Nice catch on the toy esp. if it's in good shape and even if it's not it would be well worth your effort to make it so.

When I laid eyes on this lathe I thought it was big, but when I researched it on the net it's as you say, "a cute little toy". The Oliver name came up as the patternmakers lathe to own. I found nothing on Marvel.
Stories like yours are are always a little sad...all that knowledge is gone so quickly. Progress the say...progress....

G'day GSR and welcome to the cubby!!

That's a decent looking mini beast! I think many here would love to play with it.

And Mr. Swallow I just HAVE to get to se your true beasts.

Nice looking lathe. welcome aboard.

GSRocket
I to have only been looking at this site for a short time, I had worked at Walkers in Maryborough as a carpenter and Cabinetmaker for 12 years.
Spent a lot of time with Patten markers and they are different Tradesman I can tell you.
There were 4 blokes working there and they were all the same very deep thinkers and after seeing the pattens that they made, no wonder.
I have 32 years & 2 trades under my belt and after looking at what people talk about, what they dicuss, if I look at a mitre long tape and knowledge is rated in millermitres then I only know about a mills worth.
I love old tools and have many, many of them, that is my wife tells me so all the time.
You have been kissed on the butt my an angle with that lathe, I do not think that you would be able to buy one like that any more.
Thank you for sharring it with us.

All sounds really interesting! One of my good friends years ago was a pattern maker. He mostly did hand calving of all things. Must look him up again! Haven'; seen him for years.

Welcome to the forum GSRocket.

Originally Posted by tea lady

All sounds really interesting! One of my good friends years ago was a pattern maker. He mostly did hand calving of all things. Must look him up again! Haven'; seen him for years.

Welcome to the forum GSRocket.

Where I grew up, hand calving as the province of the AI (artificial insemination) man, or the vet. But anyone could try hand carving.

Just stirring

Thanks for the welcome everybody
I understand now why the owner refused to negotiate and I nearly walked away from it but now I feel I got a bargain.
Down the road from where I live is a lovely old retired gent whose speciality
was setting up big metal working lathes. He's doing a couple of modifications
and a bit of fine tuning to the slides. He's been very good in helping me understand how it all works.
Birdie, that would have been a treasured opportunity to work with those guys....
now a passing era and knowledge lost to time.
I'm making this pattern to be cast in polyurethane, one part of it is about the size of a coffee mug, little naive me thought I'd do in one go but now I'm about to attempt my 6th effort....this time it'll be perfect ...hang on.... I said that five times before.
You spend a lot time thinking, thinking and more thinking and that's just to make the jigs 'n things to make the pattern. But I do believe it will be only a couple of hours to make the final pattern this time round.
Even in the old days I'd say it would have been a very difficult business to
make money in because of the time factor.
I've barely got my "L" plates in patternmaking. I'm really enjoying it..... once I took the time presure off myself.

Originally Posted by GSRocket

Even in the old days I'd say it would have been a very difficult business to
make money in because of the time factor.
.

Even with the time factor involved there was VERY good money to be made in the Pattern Making field. Most people have simply no idea of the costs involved in pattern tooling.

In the shop we used to own all of the pattern makers in our employ made a very good living and our shop rates reflected that. Even twenty five and thirty years ago pattern shop rates where in the $200.00 an hour range and that started as soon as the pattern maker picked up a pencil to the time the tooling left the shop.

Of course it wasn't all gravy as the only lumber that we used was Honduran Mahogany No. one pattern makers select, now for those of you not familiar with wood grades, No. one pattern makers select had to be a plank full ten quarter, twenty two feet long ,minimum ten inches wide with NO checks splits or knots. No. two pattern makers select is 22 feet long, minor checks allowed, no knots, No. three, some checks, tight knots no larger than .5 inch spaced at no less than three feet apart. After that the grades went down to fine furniture grade wood.

Needless to say this type of lumber was expensive, I say WAS simply because even if one was willing to pay the price it's simply no longer available ANYWHERE. I remember this kind of lumber being delivered to our shop by the flat deck load fifteen to twenty thousand board foot at a wack. Those where the days, sadly all but gone, but for me at least not forgotten.

I started my Patternmaking apprenticeship 57 years ago in a jobbing shop with five tradesmen and two apprentices and two bosses who were non working Pattermakers.

We didn't have a Patternmakers lathe as such but we had basically three lathes. One was actually a double lathe that is two head stocks and two tail stocks on the one bed. The bed would have been about 20 feet long and consisted of three cast iron stands and the actual bed was two lengths of Oregon beams 20' x 10" x 3" with a 3" gap between them and the head stocks, tail stocks and tool rests were mounted on the beams.

The lathes operated with an overhead pulley system that operated both lathes as well as the band saw and you turned the individual lathes on by pushing a rod sideways that moved a flat belt from an idler pulley wheel to a fixed pulley wheel that turned the shaft that ran the lathes.

The other lathe was a stand alone lathe head stock without any bed which had a 3 feet diameter steel face plate which we mounted various size cross arms too up to 6 feet diameter to turn up patterns of Socket and Spigot ends for precast concrete pipes.

That was pretty scary stuff having a cross arm swing around at 300 to 400 revs with no guards. Today Workcover would shut you down.

As to wages in 1959-60 the average Patternmaker was only on $40 a week which was what the average tradesman was on anyway. Time may have changed since then.

Hi GSRocket,

Good score alright. Plenty of life left it that little beast.

I thought that Marvel was a engineering equipment brand made in Japan, am sure I have seen it before. Somebody else might be able to confirm.

Welcome to the library.

Cheers
Pops

Originally Posted by swallow

Of course it wasn't all gravy as the only lumber that we used was Honduran Mahogany No. one pattern makers select, now for those of you not familiar with wood grades, No. one pattern makers select had to be a plank full ten quarter, twenty two feet long ,minimum ten inches wide with NO checks splits or knots. No. two pattern makers select is 22 feet long, minor checks allowed, no knots, No. three, some checks, tight knots no larger than .5 inch spaced at no less than three feet apart. After that the grades went down to fine furniture grade wood.

Those where the days, sadly all but gone, but for me at least not forgotten.

Hi Swallow

Here in Australia things were probably a bit different. The timbers we mostly used were Sugar Pine, Yellow Pine, Jelutong and Beech. Sugar Pine was a beautiful timber to work, hardly ever a knot. Yellow Pine quite often had gum veins in it and the Jelutong was a very dusty timber to work.

Mate those lathes are rare as hens teeth, I know I tried to find one! ended up modifying an old woodfast. But I still keep a lookout.

Check out this wadkin for a dream lathe
Used WADKIN RU 15 Patternmakers Lathe, Very Rare for sale: $9,500 AUD - A Class Woodworking Machinery -Wood Lathes