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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Cowra
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    Default Bike trailer plans help

    Hi all new to the long time member first time poster. I'm in need of some advice. I'm currently building a trailer to cart my and my merry tribes dirt bikes. I have 3 full size bikes, 1 medium size bike and 2 pw50's at the moment to carry. I did have a 7x5 trailer but it got a bit much for it so sold it to start the build on this.

    I did have plans but went of track with them making it bigger then i originally had planned. The main rectangle sections is 3mx2.1m with the front nos cone section 1mx1m (wide at the tip) The drawbar will extend a further 1m out from that and go all the way back to the spring hangers. I have used 50x50x3mm for the frame and 100x50x3mm for the drawbar. Prob a bit over kill in size for it all but considering it will see some off road use i didnt mind although hoping it didnt add to much weight.

    My biggest decision is the suspension setup. Considering the overall length will be 5m do i go dual or single.

    Single pros.
    Cheap
    Lighter setup keeping trailer weight down
    Takes up less floor space giving more bike/gear room

    Cons
    Only one i can think of is towball weight problems

    dual axle pros.
    No towball weight problems
    Better towing

    Cons
    Expense
    Extra weight added to trailer
    Room taking up by extra wheel/mudgaurd

    I have seen a few single axle car trailers and they dont look to bad with the size on one axle and plenty of caravans do it.

    I want to eventually enclose it but until funds allow it will stay a flat tray.

    This is where i'm at so far
    1396718_10151841430899912_840090522_n.jpg

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge SA
    Posts
    3,339

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BLKWDW View Post
    Hi all new to the long time member first time poster. I'm in need of some advice. I'm currently building a trailer to cart my and my merry tribes dirt bikes. I have 3 full size bikes, 1 medium size bike and 2 pw50's at the moment to carry. I did have a 7x5 trailer but it got a bit much for it so sold it to start the build on this.

    I did have plans but went of track with them making it bigger then i originally had planned. The main rectangle sections is 3mx2.1m with the front nos cone section 1mx1m (wide at the tip) The drawbar will extend a further 1m out from that and go all the way back to the spring hangers. I have used 50x50x3mm for the frame and 100x50x3mm for the drawbar. Prob a bit over kill in size for it all but considering it will see some off road use i didnt mind although hoping it didnt add to much weight.
    No, this is not overkill, once you get the framing on to enclose it. You could possibly have problems with the frame bending unless some sort of torsion frame is mounted to the top, ie pipe tie rail 300mm high on the sides (over the top of the guards). If it was brought inside the future cladding frame, it would be already to go, no mods required.
    My biggest decision is the suspension setup. Considering the overall length will be 5m do i go dual or single.
    What sort of weight do you propose to carry on it, Bikes,(don't forget in a few years time PW50's will be too small), fuel containers (1KG per litre), camping gear, toolbox etc? This will help decide, see Yonnee's comments below.
    Single pros.
    Cheap
    Lighter setup keeping trailer weight down
    Takes up less floor space giving more bike/gear room

    Cons
    Only one i can think of is towball weight problems
    Placement of the axle/s fixes towball weight problems which should be 60kg max.


    dual axle pros.
    No towball weight problems
    Towballs still require some weight on them.
    Better towing

    Cons
    Expense
    Extra weight added to trailer
    Room taking up by extra wheel/mudgaurd

    I have seen a few single axle car trailers and they dont look to bad with the size on one axle and plenty of caravans do it.

    I want to eventually enclose it but until funds allow it will stay a flat tray.

    This is where i'm at so far
    1396718_10151841430899912_840090522_n.jpg
    This is the answer taken from Initial Flat Top Trailer Planning question by Yonnee

    So much information to digest. Being from NSW, your first port of call is RMS because your Rego cost is based on the eventual Tare weight of the trailer you build, so this cost could have a bearing on what your eventual build will be. I personally think this is a dangerous way of rating and registering trailers as you'll get people building trailers from Balsa Wood to carry 4500Kg.

    As for ATM or GTM, there are certain limitations which will impact your decisions as to what you build.
    Firstly, a trailer's capacity can only be rated to highest capacity of its weakest component.
    The highest capacity "Light Trailer" you can build is 4500Kg, and you can build a trailer to this if your budget allows.
    Secondly, the highest capacity 50mm towball you'll find is rated at 3500Kg. This is also the same rating you'll get in an Electric brake coupling. So this is a fair rating to build a trailer of this size to. And you would always rate the trailer as high as you can. No point building a trailer that can safely carry 3500Kg, rate it and register it at 3000Kg, and get pulled over have it weigh 3400Kg.

    The next step back is 2000Kg GTM. This is the point at which brakes are required on ALL wheels, and well as the ability for the brakes to apply themselves should the trailer become detached from the tow vehicle. By far the cheapest of this option is Electric Brakes, but there are other options.

    From there, the next decision is what axle combination your budget will allow.
    40mm square with Holden bearings are 1000Kg per axle.
    45mm square with Falcon bearings are 1400Kg per axle.
    50mm square with Falcon bearings are 1500Kg per axle.
    50mm square with Parallel bearings are 1600Kg per axle.
    50mm square with 2 Tonne bearings are... yep, 2000Kg per axle.

    Now, the reason I've stated the above "per axle", is that the combination of both axles and suspension effects your overall GTM. With non load-sharing suspension (slipper), the axles must have a rating above 120% of the GTM, so a 2000Kg trailer requires axle with a rating higher than 1200Kg.

    Lastly, if you do build a trailer rated higher than 2000Kg, there is a big jump in price once you go from 10" to 12" Electric. The 10" brake is good for 1600Kg the pair, and the 10" drum is what the Parallel bearings were built around. However, the front snout diameter of the Parallel drum will limit your stud pattern/wheel choice. Be careful of factory alloys too, that a), they fit over the snout of the drum & grease cap, and b), they are rated high enough."
    Hope this helps
    Kryn
    Last edited by Yonnee; 28th December 2013 at 10:59 PM.

  4. #3
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    Feb 2011
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    Cowra
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    Default

    Thanks for the info mate. Well in regards to overall weight i'm hoping to keep the overal weight under 1.5t. If i can make the trailer as a flat tray under 500kg tare weight will give me roughly 500kg for extras not including the bike which currently weigh just over 400kgs. Also dont want to go over 2t gtm as i dont want elec brakes want to keep it to mechanical discs as there will be a few different cars towing the trailer and dont want the hassle of putting brake controller in all cars especially if there not mine. Although i think if i singel axle at 1.6-2t i have to have elec brakes.

    Setups i'm going for
    2X 9 LEAF 60MMX7MM OFF ROAD BLACK SPRINGS WITH DAMPNERS (RATED 2000KG RATED)
    2X FRONT HEAVY DUTY HANGERS
    2X REAR EYE HANGERS WITH EXTRA STRENGTH WELD IN BRACKETS
    2X OFF ROAD FISH PLATES
    4X OFF 5/8" HIGH TENSILE ROAD U BOLTS
    2X GREASABLE HIGH TENSILE DOUBLE SHACKLE PLATES WITH SHACKLE BOLTS WELDED
    2X GREASABLE HIGH TENSILE SHACKLE PINS
    2X AXLE PADS
    1X 50MM SQUARE 2 TONNE SOLID AXLE WITH ELECTRIC BRAKE MOUNTS WELDED, ALSO COMES WITH SPLIT PINS & WASHERS. AXLE IS SUPPLIED CLOSEST TO YOUR NEEDS.
    1X LEFT HAND 12" BRAKE BACKING PLATE WITH HAND BRAKE LEVER
    1X RIGHT HAND 12" BRAKE BACKING PLATE WITH HAND BRAKE LEVER
    2X 12" HUB DRUMS WITH CUPS ALREADY PRESSED IN (AVAILABLE IN 6 AND 5 STUD LANDCRUISER)
    2X 2 TONNE BEARING SETS .
    2.


    2X 7 LEAF 60MMX7MM OFF ROAD BLACK SPRINGS WITH DAMPNERS (RATED 2000KG RATED)
    2X FRONT HEAVY DUTY HANGERS
    2X REAR EYE HANGERS WITH EXTRA STRENGTH WELD IN BRACKETS
    2X OFF ROAD FISH PLATES
    4X OFF 5/8" HIGH TENSILE ROAD U BOLTS
    2X GREASABLE HIGH TENSILE DOUBLE SHACKLE PLATES WITH SHACKLE BOLTS WELDED
    2X GREASABLE HIGH TENSILE SHACKLE PINS
    2X AXLE PADS

    1X 50MM SQUARE 1600KG PARRALLEL SOLID AXLEWITH ELECTRIC BRAKE MOUNTS WELDED, ALSO COMES WITH SPLIT PINS & WASHERS. AXLE IS SUPPLIED CLOSEST TO YOUR NEEDS.
    1X LEFT HAND 10" BRAKE BACKING PLATE WITH HAND BRAKE LEVER
    1X RIGHT HAND 10" BRAKE BACKING PLATE WITH HAND BRAKE LEVER
    2X 10" PARRALLEL HUB DRUMS WITH CUPS ALREADY PRESSED IN (AVAILABLE IN FORD, 6 AND 5 STUD LANDCRUISER)
    2X 2 TONNE BEARING SETS.
    3

    2X 45MM SQUARE AXLES. 1 WITH DISC BRAKE MOUNTS WELDED TO AXLE, 1400KG RATED EACH
    2X MECHANICAL CALIPERS WITH BRAKE PADS
    2 X DISC HUBS WITH SLIMLINE BEARING KITS. AVAILABLE IN FORD, HQ, HT. 6 STUD AVAILABLE EXTRA $40
    2X LAZY HUBS WITH SLIMLINE BEARING KITS
    24 X WHEEL NUTS
    5 LEAF 2.5 TONNE ROCKER ROLLER SPRING SET WITH GREASABLE SHACKLES AND HANGERS ALREADY ASSEMBLED
    2X FRONT HANGERS (ALREADY ASSEMBLED)
    2X REAR HANGERS (ALREADY ASSEMBLED)
    2X MIDDLE LARGE HANGERS (ALREADY ASSEMBLED)
    4X UNIVERSAL FISH PLATES
    8X 45MM SQUARE U BOLTS
    4X AXLE PADS
    16X SPRING WASHERS AND NUTS FOR U BOLTS
    1X 2000KG GALVANISED 4 HOLE OVERRIDE BALL COUPLING
    1X MECHANICAL BASE PLATE (AVAILABLE IN DRAW BAR STYLE 75MM OR 100MM WIDTH OR A FRAME BASE PLATE)
    8M CABLE, CABLE ADJUSTER, 2 X CLAMPS
    4X HIGH TENSILE COUPLING BOLTS WITH NYLOC NUTS
    1X 4 HOLE COUPLING PLATE

    Also whats the torsion frame you are talking about?

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Cowra
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    Default

    The other option i do have and thought of is to scrap what i have now and buy a run down caravan that way its enclosed already and will prob work out at a similar price if not a bit cheaper.

    Something like this
    Caravan 18ft needs work | Caravan | Gumtree Australia Orange Area - Orange | 1033260098

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Murray Bridge SA
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    Also whats the torsion frame you are talking about?

    The torsion frame I'm talking about is a pipe that stops the chassis from bending under the weigh of the load that is placed on top of the trailer. As an example a straight line 3metres long, with 2 supports 300mm high, approx 500 mm in from each end with a pipe attached at each end of the straight line and bent over the 2 supports. Sorry I can't draw it out for you, but I hope you get the idea.
    Kryn

  7. #6
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    Cowra
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    Yeh i'm still not 100% sure what you mean. Might go speak to local trailer shop see if they can show me exactly. Also as i will be enclosing it what size shs should i use for the outer frame and should i cut out the square sections on the edges of the floor where the frame for the top frame will have to be welded to the base?

  8. #7
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    Also what the best way to mount the floor the chassis? Was looking at sikaflexing it but will it hold? if not will spot welding every so often along the frame do the job?

  9. #8
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    Cowra
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKWDW View Post
    Also what the best way to mount the floor the chassis? Was looking at sikaflexing it but will it hold? if not will spot welding every so often along the frame do the job?
    Could i just weld in one peice of 75x50mm in the centre of the trailer to help stop any flex it might have?

  10. #9
    Yonnee's Avatar
    Yonnee is offline Trailer Bloke & Mild Mannered Moderator
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    Hi BLKWDW, and Welcome to the forum.

    I see Kryn has been helping you with your query, even quoting me in the process...

    Just want to clarify a couple of things from your options list.
    If that list is from a quote from a Trailer Parts supply place, then you're not getting the whole story. You suggest that you'd prefer to not run Electric brakes as the trailer might be towed by several vehicles.
    My personal preference is Electric, but the customer doesn't always need this presented as their only option.
    Option 1:
    2 Tonne single axle, the brakes are available as a 12" Hydraulic using the same drums as the 12" Electric, just different mounting plates. 2 Tonne override coupling will suffice, but will require the 1" Master cylinder.

    Option 2:
    1.6 Tonne single axle, these too are available as a Hydraulic brake to fit the 10" parallel drum. From memory it even uses the same mounts as the Electric brake. It is a bit dearer than the Electric brake, so along with the more expensive coupling, can jump the price of the 1600Kg Hydraulic option by a couple of hundred dollars.

    Option 3:
    2 Tonne tandem. Mechanical discs are generally optioned for boat trailers where corrosion limitation is paramount, and while they are legal, they are primitive and really require continual adjustment to brake effectively. I would suggest Mechanical Lever drum brakes. Same coupling, slightly cheaper brake kit, and uses the same mounts as the Electric brakes, so should you want to change the trailer at a later date to Electric brakes, then you only need to swap the brake assemblies and drums, and lock the coupling (or swap it out).

    Your concerns regarding the jump between single and tandem are valid, but you'll find that the difference in price isn't that great. While it may seem that you're doubling the parts, the cost of the heavier single axle equipment is quite substantial, and under 2000Kg, you can run a Lazy rear axle. (I would option the brake mounting plate on the rear anyway as it's much easier to upgrade it to 4 wheel brakes by bolting on rather than having to jig up and weld on a mount).


    As for your floor, it's up to you. For a trailer that you need to clean out with a shovel, then you want it super smooth. But a bike trailer, just screw it from the top using self drilling hex-head screws.
    Too many projects, so little time, even less money!
    Are you a registered member? Why not? click here to register. It's free and only takes 37 seconds! Doing work around the home? Wander over to our sister site, Renovate Forum, for all your renovation queries.

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