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  1. 14th September 2022, 12:03 AM #1
    gpsmith
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    Default Breadboard Ends with 50 year old Vic Ash

    I am making a table for 8 people out of recycled timber that has come from the old demolished section of a house. It is at least 50 years old Vic Ash- table dimensions are 2100mm by 890mm by 30mm. I have decided to have breadboard ends. All the books and Youtube videos recommend using dowels to draw the outer tenons into position and only gluing the centre tenon to allow for movement.

    I have made the table top using dominoes along the boards over the winter and there does not appear to be any variation in the width of the table. I am about to attach the breadboard ends using mortise and tenon joints. A couple of people who are assisting me (giving advice) think that because the timber is so old and stable that I could glue the entire breadboard end and there will be no movement.

    My question(s): Should I follow the advice of the reference books and Youtube and only glue centre tenon and pin? or
    Would I be able to glue all the tenons of the breadboard ends because the timber is so old and it does not appear to have moved?

    I look forward to your opinions.

    Regards,

    GP Smith
    Smithy
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  3. 14th September 2022, 01:46 AM #2
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    derekcohen
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    Smithy, it is not the age of the timber that counts; it is the weather around you. Dry timber will absorb moisture and expand. Better safe than sorry.

    I would listen to the books and only glue the centre mortice-and-tenon. Works for me.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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  4. 14th September 2022, 01:13 PM #3
    gpsmith
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    Default Breadboard Ends

    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    Smithy, it is not the age of the timber that counts; it is the weather around you. Dry timber will absorb moisture and expand. Better safe than sorry.

    I would listen to the books and only glue the centre mortice-and-tenon. Works for me.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Thank you Derek,

    I think I was tending that way but needed some reassurance from more experienced hands in Australia and our hardwoods!

    Regards,
    Smithy
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  5. 14th September 2022, 02:03 PM #4
    rustynail
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    Timber shrinks and swells, always. Wet shrinks and dry swells. Your timber is no different. Like any fifty year old, it needs room to move.
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  6. 14th September 2022, 03:40 PM #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpsmith View Post
    Thank you Derek ...
    Well done.

    RULE !: Listen to Derek, or Ian, or Auscab, or Rust, or ... , or ... There is a heap of good advice on this Forum.

    And the moisture that Rustynail mentions is not just water - it is mainly water vapour in the humidity. It changes continually.
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  7. 15th September 2022, 10:24 AM #6
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    auscab
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    If your going to glue the Center and peg it through the top and not glue the ends then you need to make the mortises out left and right longer to allow the movement as well . Then even elongate the peg holes in the tenons . If a top wants to shrink and its tenons are resting hard on the mortise ends in the BBE then it’s the same as being glued .
    If I was building a bbq table that was living in the weather with such a top then I’d do all that above . But if it’s dry wood going to a dry home and staying in that position for years it will survive being fully glued . They end up showing a little movement at the side ends but it takes longer to show with fully glued tops .
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  8. 15th September 2022, 07:56 PM #7
    The Spin Doctor
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpsmith View Post
    I am about to attach the breadboard ends using mortise and tenon joints. A couple of people who are assisting me (giving advice) think that because the timber is so old and stable that I could glue the entire breadboard end and there will be no movement.


    GP Smith
    Absolutely not. 2million year old wood will do what 5 year old wood will do - move with the level of humidity. Wood never stops moving - ever. To be honest nothing stops moving, including petrified wood (though it's through thermal expansion, it still moves)
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  9. 18th September 2022, 06:43 PM #8
    gpsmith
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    Default Breadboard Ends

    Thank you to all who offered their advice, I have followed Derek's et all advice and gone with the gluing of the centre tenon and dry for the others. I used handmade dowels from off cuts of the timber used in the construction of the table.

    Breadboard Ends 4.jpgBreadboard Ends 3.jpg

    Regards,
    Smithy
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