Thread: A console cabinet for two

That’s beautiful Lance; well done to yourself and Maja!

x 10

Lance an Maja,

What a Gorgeous little table, I wouldn’t mind hearing a little bit more about your special home brew finishing formula Lance, ie what brand of products you used ??
Because I’m in the final stages of finishing a little table my self.

Suggestions please,Red gum Huon Pine Finish.
Suggestions please,Red gum Huon Pine Finish.

Cheers Matt.

Hats off to you both, an excellent result. But you better watch out or Mrs Lance is going to be elbowing you out of the way shortly & taking over. Her kumiko is very impressive!

Sliding dovetails with hand tools is definitely the way to go, imo. I predict you'll find them no more difficult to do by hand & apart from the greater flexibility as to size & slopes, you can usually achieve much tighter fits, with a bit of care. It took me many years to work up the courage to ditch the screamin' demon and go all hand-work for SDs, but when I finally did, I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it is. A couple of tools, like a simple home-made D/T plane and a side-rebate plane if you can find one in good order, are a big help for long SDs as on shelves & carcase parts, but not essential.

Your choice of finish is one of my favourites. I first saw it recommended in an early FWW and have used various modifications a lot ever since (by modifications I mean varying the turps/varnish ratio depending on how porous the wood is & what effect I want to get). I liken it to French polishing in that you apply many layers, with most of each application evaporating (the turps) & depositing a very small amount of solids each time. You can build the finish to whatever you like; I prefer to stop at the point where there is an even surface but before any "build" becomes noticeable, but you can build it up more for a polish-like finish if the piece warrants it. Typically 5 or so applications does the trick for something like an occasional table, depending of course on your dilution ratio. Somewhere between 50 & 70% turps is what I use depending on the wood. I usually apply the second lot with 0000 steel wool, the idea being to cut any nibs formed by the first application & produce a very smooth surface. Subsequent coats are just ragged on & wiped off before it starts to get sticky. If you over-do the build or it's too glossy for your taste after tha last coats, you can pull it back & cut the gloss with fine steel wool & wax before it gets too hard, but be careful not to over-do it or you will be faced with cleaning off all residual wax & re-doing the last couple of coats worth (damhik!).

My first attempt was to mimic an oil finish that didn't mark whenever someone put a wet glass on it & I used a 'satin' poly as the varnish component. To that end it was entirely satisfactory, it's far more water-resistant than any "oil" finish. Durability seems good too - so far I've only had to repair one small table top finished in this way & it was dead easy - a quick sand & a few coats of similar brew was all it took to bring it back to "as new". Using gloss poly will give a higher sheen, of course.

The only down side I can think of is that probably more than half your brew either evaporates or gets wiped off, so it's a bit wasteful compared with brushing varnish on straight from the can. But the end result is vastly better & it's far & away the easiest way to get a professional-looking job, I reckon - I have never, ever, managed to get anything as good by brushing....

Cheers

Matt,

Ian actually did a really good job of describing the finish in his post. Having said that, I was using Cabot's oil based varnish with terps. I tried meths in my first mix, and that didn't work at all as the varnish just broke up into tiny suspended blobs when shaken, and once left standing, separated out again. I may be wrong, but I think diluted varnish it essentially what wiping varnish is.

Ian,

I had to extend the trenches where I didn't cut far enough, and doing so by hand was surprisingly easy, and oh so much more controllable, so yes, I'm keen to have a go doing the next tones by hand.

I am interested that you used (use?) matt finish. It is my understanding that gloss has more solids and so ends up with a more resistant finish than matt. And as you said, the use of steel wool and wax allows one to dial in the desired finish.

With respect to your different levels of dilution, am I correct in assuming that this is based on the porosity of the wood, with an increased dilution for tighter grained woods?

Originally Posted by LanceC

....I am interested that you used (use?) matt finish. It is my understanding that gloss has more solids and so ends up with a more resistant finish than matt. And as you said, the use of steel wool and wax allows one to dial in the desired finish...

Lance, I only used matte varnish once or twice, trying to emulate the really flat "oil" finishes that were especially popular in the 60s. I mostly use either gloss or satin (semi-gloss) depending on the look I'm trying to achieve. For some reason, my other half has a strong objection to full-gloss finishes, so anything destined for our house is usually not finished to anything more than a semi-gloss (she has allowed some exceptions, for example where french-polished pieces are more "authentic" )
You are correct in that non-gloss surfaces are usually less robust than gloss & the more matte it is, the less tough. But as I understand it, the reason is not because of less "solids" in the mix but because additives (stearates) alter the polymerisation of the polyurethane to produce the dull look. I read that a very long long time ago, and possibly things have since changed so that may be out of date....

Originally Posted by LanceC

....With respect to your different levels of dilution, am I correct in assuming that this is based on the porosity of the wood, with an increased dilution for tighter grained woods?....

Spot on!

The more dilute mix also seems to give a better (more even) final surface, which I liken to the french polishing process where only the tiniest amount of material is actually deposited at each application, & most of the liquid evaporates. Of course, you have to wait much longer between re-coats than with fp; I usually allow at least overnight, even if the can says it can be re-coated sooner.

As you discovered, metho is not miscible in "solvent-based" poly. It will mix with some non-polar liquids, but by no means all. Mineral turpentine is the easiest & most readily-available diluent for this job. You can use gum turps (I have once, in desperation), but it is much less volatile & slows down curing. It is also poisonously expensive, so much better used for jobs like making your own paste-waxes where the slower evaporation rate is desirable. Also, I love the smell of the stuff!

Cheers,

Stunning!!

Lance, I just finished this chair for one of our grand daughters. The seat & back rail are Jacaranda and the legs & spindles are black wattle (not A. mearnsii, it's one of the several spp. round here that get lumped under that moniker).

To keep the parents happy, I went for an "oiled" look, using satin Estapol at a starting dilution of 60 (turps) to 40 poly (roughly!). This is one of those tricky situations I alluded to above, where the jacaranda is quite porous and the wattle much less so, so while the dilution was fine on the wattle, it disappeared like hot water into the jacaranda. So I really slathered it on the jacaranda & left it a few minutes longer before wiping off.

Done.jpg Crest rail.jpg

This is after 3 coats and I think I'll leave it there, it is a pretty good simulacrum of that 60's "Scandinavian" look I wanted but will be much more spill-resistant than a straight oil finish.....

The carving is by request of the recipient...

Cheers, Ian

Originally Posted by LanceC

... When it came to finishing, we tried something a little different to my usual shellac and wax. Because it was a) out of our control maintenance wise, and b) will potentially see more scratching or drinks placed upon it, I thought something a little hardier would be a good idea. I mixed some oil based varnish with mineral turpentine to a 1:1 ratio, which was then wiped on with a rag. Because there is less varnish being deposited with each coat, it did take more coats, but was rewarded with no dribbles and not requiring any denibbing between coats. An unexpected bonus was that the final finish didn’t have the characteristic plasticky polyurethane feel. ...

Originally Posted by IanW

... Your choice of finish is one of my favourites. I first saw it recommended in an early FWW and have used various modifications a lot ever since (by modifications I mean varying the turps/varnish ratio depending on how porous the wood is & what effect I want to get). I liken it to French polishing in that you apply many layers, with most of each application evaporating (the turps) & depositing a very small amount of solids each time. ...

My first attempt was to mimic an oil finish that didn't mark whenever someone put a wet glass on it & I used a 'satin' poly as the varnish component. To that end it was entirely satisfactory, it's far more water-resistant than any "oil" finish. Durability seems good too - so far I've only had to repair one small table top finished in this way & it was dead easy - a quick sand & a few coats of similar brew was all it took to bring it back to "as new". Using gloss poly will give a higher sheen, of course.

I prefer yet another version of the above, the varient mainly in technique.

I use a DIY wipe-on-poly mixed between 50-70% turps and polyurethane. Application technique is:

1. Sand to 200-240 grit, no more,
2. Apply WoP, wait ten minutes, wipe off (This fills pores),
3. Repeat step 2,
4. Apply WoP with 400 grit sandpaper and lightly wet sand,
5. Apply WoP with 600 grit sandpaper and lightly wet sand,
6. Apply WoP with 1000 grit sandpaper and lightly wet sand,
7. Continue through grits - 1500, 2000, 3000, 4000.

From 600 grit you only need about 4 strokes sanding - it is fast - and you will notice the improvement every second grit. [Translation: I cannot tell the difference between 1000 and 1500 grit finish, but 2000 is noticably better than 1000.]

Finish is often described as "sensual" - feels great! And it is close to bullet proof.

I use a DIY wipe-on-poly mixed between 50-70% turps and polyurethane. Application technique is:


Ian, that looks lovely. It can be hard to tell if those are contrasting timbers as the back-rest and seat are in a different orientation to the legs and back spindles. But as you have used two different timbers, I assume that is contributing the the different look. the carving is lovely.

I made a desk riser last weekend and tried finishing with your technique of applying with steel wool. I must admit to being rather disappointed as I ended up with steel dust under the finish. I don't doubt your method, but rather my technique. I have the same problem when applying wax with the steel wool as other seem to do quite successfully. I have tried the cheep and nasty stuff as well as the more expensive Liberon brand. Oh well.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

I use a DIY wipe-on-poly mixed between 50-70% turps and polyurethane. Application technique is ...

I'm sure that does give a wonderful finish, but boy, I don't know that I've got enough time to go through a routine like that on all of my pieces. Perhaps I'll try it on the top of a box where it will be appreciated, and see how it comes out.

It's a beautiful piece of work, a very nice present.

Originally Posted by LanceC

... I'm sure that does give a wonderful finish, but boy, I don't know that I've got enough time to go through a routine like that on all of my pieces. Perhaps I'll try it on the top of a box where it will be appreciated, and see how it comes out.

Lance; just try it and you will be won over. It is actually quite fast. For the 600 grit and finer coats, you just dip the sandpaper in the finish, rub four strokes and move on. It is touch dry within the hour, but I have always waited 24 hours between coats. Keep meaning to trial 12 hours between coats, but haven't done that yet.

Biggest difficulty was in sourcing the finest grades of sandpaper - they are stocked by those who supply panel beaters.

Originally Posted by LanceC

...I made a desk riser last weekend and tried finishing with your technique of applying with steel wool. I must admit to being rather disappointed as I ended up with steel dust under the finish. I don't doubt your method, but rather my technique. I have the same problem when applying wax with the steel wool as other seem to do quite successfully. I have tried the cheep and nasty stuff as well as the more expensive Liberon brand. Oh well.....

Lance, I suspect your steel wool is to blame. You need to be sure it's "fresh" when you buy it & hasn't been exposed to moisture at any point. I keep the roll well-wrapped in plastic bags & only tear off what I need. It doesn't take much exposure for the 0000 stuff to oxidise & become fragile (it will burn very readily if you put a match to it). I often have a spare piece lying around by my lathe, and in damp weather (= 3/4 of the year in Brisbane!), it will "go off" in a couple of days & turn to steel dust if I try to use it, which sounds like what's happening to you. If the wood you are working with is at all acidic, you can end up with a right mess! I don't have any trouble with fresh wool - Liberon is the brand I buy too. I strongly advise against the stuff they sell in the paint section of hardware stores, it is coated with a stearate or some waxy stuff to stop it rusting in the packet & that can interfere with some finishes - it also seems to crumble more than the Liberon product.

Some people advocate using the nylon pads instead - I forget which colour is recommended, but there is one that's about equivalent to 0000 steel wool. I have tried them, years ago, but felt I didn't get as good an effect, though one should never make a decision on a single trial - it could have been the wood or the finish or a combination of factors. However, there is one strike against the pads - they cost a lot more than steel wool, and although you may be able to wash them & get more than a single use out of them, I had very little joy with trying to clean them.

There is yet another alternative & that is the abrasive mesh that turners often use. It works very well & is intermediate in cost. This is the sort of stuff I mean, though the mesh I've used came in regular-sized sheets, you'd have little need of a pack like that unless you were an avid turner.

Originally Posted by LanceC

..... I'm sure that does give a wonderful finish, but boy, I don't know that I've got enough time to go through a routine like that on all of my pieces. Perhaps I'll try it on the top of a box where it will be appreciated, and see how it comes out....

I would only use something like Graeme's full method for special pieces, but it should certainly give you a fine finish! The splash-on, wipe off method with/without sanding on subsequent coats can give you a pretty good result, with about the least effort of any finishing method, and usually, the least trouble. I only use steel wool on the 2nd coat, and then only if the first coat has raised the grain (sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't), subsequent coats are just ragged on. I usually rub down the dry wood with steel wool before applying the first coat (if the wool does crumble a bit, it's easy to dust it off (some recommend vacuuming the piece over). On the majority of woods I use, a dry-rub down seems to de-nib enough that the surface remains smooth after the first coat has dried. Much depends on the wood though, Toona is definitely a "hairy" wood and does need more attention with some types of finish, though paradoxically, I find it one of the easier woods to french polish. I've had blackwood that turned into a woollen jumper after the first coat of oil or poly too....

I think the one sure thing I've learnt about finishing is to expect the unexpected!

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

... I would only use something like Graeme's full method for special pieces, but it should certainly give you a fine finish! ...

That used to be my thinking, too, Ian, but the method is so fast and foolproof that I use it on virtually everything with a clear finish. People seem to like to feel the finish - literally - and it is frequently refered to as "sensual".

Initially, I just did the wipe on, wipe off process with a light sanding of "fur" between coats, and got good results. Then I started adding a third or fouth coat after (dry) sanding with steel wool and got better results. Then I tried wet sanding with the steel wool and got even better results. Then I discovered the ultra fine grades of sandpaper used by panel beaters and they give the best results so far. I think the wet sanding with steel wool may have left some (invisible) dust in the finish; the sandpaper doesn't.

Way back in 1981 I saw a Sam Maloof chair in the Please be Seated exhibition at the Museum of Fine Art in Boston and, apart from the design and craftsmanship, I was blown away by the superb quality of the finish. And the bottom of the seat was as well finished as the visible parts of the chair. I am still on a journey towards that ideal.