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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Shetland, UK
    Posts
    2

    Default Designing and making an Emperor size Sleigh Bed

    Morning All,
    Looking for some ideas and advice on a project i'm planning, to let you understand the background, i was left a small amount of money by my grandparents, been holding on to it for over a year wondering what to do with it, between my wife and I we have agreed on an Emperor size bed, we were looking at the beds sold by a company called Revival Beds, they look amazing, but instead of buying one, i am now looking at building it myself, something along the lines of this
    Quality Leather Sleigh Beds - The Tuscany Sleigh Bed | Revival Beds (hope it's ok to post that for reference purposes?)

    Looking at the moment for a basic plan of sorts, that tells me what thickness to make the parts, the corners of the headboard and footboard which hold the side rails etc, Also considering several different types of wood as follows,
    1, Ash - stained darker to bring the lines out
    2, Iroko
    3, Cherry
    4, Maple
    5, Oak
    6, Sapele

    The lighter woods in the list i would most likley stain darker, and the darker woods would be oiled, or clear finished in some way.

    Anyone have any reasons to avoid any of the woods for this purpose, or the best ones to use?

    Looking forward to your comments, really looking forward to this project also.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    940

    Default

    Welcome to the forum.
    Good luck with your project.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Millmerran,QLD
    Age
    73
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    11,098

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    Welcome Robert

    I am intrigued by your project in so far as I had not appreciated you could buy beds that size. We have a largish bed, which over here is termed a "king" size, but is equivalent to the Super King size in the Revival Beds link you provided.

    The sleigh bed is impressive and like you I would look at building it myself, but there are some logistical issues, which I don't intend as a deterrent to the project, but just as a heads up. A large bed requires a large room. A large bed is likely going to be extremely heavy, particularly if made from hardwood, which I believe would be preferable, but may be more of a challenge in shaping those scrolls. Is a mattress and bed linen readily available for the Emperor size? A quick flick through the web site seemed to indicate they supply both those products: BUT it sounds expensive (will the inheritance cover that too?) and I did "build" a bed to get some idea of price, but the last step involved emailing them so I pulled the pin at that point. Consequently I have to go, for the moment, with it "looking" expensive. The largest size mattress that is commercially available in Oz is the King, which is 6' wide. Bed linen is commensurately more expensive too.

    Lastly, going back to the weight of the bed, it may not be easily moved unless it it built so it can be knocked down for this purpose. I see you are in the Shetlands so moving house may not be on the radar. Perhaps you have already tackled these issues above and they are not the barrier they may be to some.

    At this point I must tell a story of a long time ago, back in the UK as it happens, where a girl friend was moving to a new flat and being helped by another friend of mine. The girl's mother arrived and commented that she had some brand new linen she was happy to give her daughter. The girl friend said thanks, but her bed was a Queen size (5') and the linen from her mother's standard size bed would not fit. The mother replied, "Why would you want a bed that size? A standard bed has always been big enough for your father and I."

    My irreverent mate, quick as a flash said,

    "Ah, yes, but there's only two of you."



    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Shetland, UK
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Hi Paul,
    Thanks for the message.
    As far as size goes, our bedroom will take this size bed no problem, built our own house so the bedroom is quite large,
    Mattress again can be sourced quite easily from several companies, ranging from 900 pounds up to around 3k.
    I'm going to make the bed so the two ends are glued together, and the side rails come off with Knock Down Fittings, that way it can be transported in bits, it will still be heavy yes, but manageable with two people.
    So hopefully i've thought of everything, but will wait and see, i'm sure i will hit a few snags along the way as you always do, but hoping it's not too many.
    All the best
    Robert

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    blue mountains
    Posts
    4,882

    Default

    First welcome to the forum. I used to sometimes come in to Lerwick on the supply boats. Any of the woods on the list will make a good bed so whatever you like the look of. As to stain thats personal choice but for me I think if its a nice wood then an oil finish is good and it will darken the wood a bit also. Sound advice from Paul re weight and being able to move it. Being practical almost all beds need to be knock down for moving or else build it in the room and it's there for ever. I have made a few beds but nothing on that scale so can you get a mattress and bedding in that size. I would get the mattress first as I have found size can vary then scale the build around that. Largest one I have made was what is called Queen size about 1.6m wide mattress. That called for a center rail and a fifth leg so it wont sag in the middle. If the side rails enclose the mattress leave some space so a hand can tuck in the bedding. A high bed is easier to get out of. Some modern beds are way too low so think about whats a comfortable height. It sounds like a great project so keep us all posted as you go.
    Regards
    John

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    back in Alberta for a while
    Age
    68
    Posts
    12,006

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    Quote Originally Posted by robertlaurenson View Post
    Looking for some ideas and advice on a project i'm planning, to let you understand the background, i was left a small amount of money by my grandparents, been holding on to it for over a year wondering what to do with it, between my wife and I we have agreed on an Emperor size bed, we were looking at the beds sold by a company called Revival Beds, they look amazing, but instead of buying one, i am now looking at building it myself, something along the lines of this
    Quality Leather Sleigh Beds - The Tuscany Sleigh Bed | Revival Beds (hope it's ok to post that for reference purposes?)

    Looking at the moment for a basic plan of sorts, that tells me what thickness to make the parts, the corners of the headboard and footboard which hold the side rails etc,
    Robert,
    a very good reference is a book by Jeff Miller called Beds: Nine Outstanding Projects by One of America's Best Craftsmen
    Google the title and author to find where you can obtain a copy.

    The largest bed Jeff builds for the book is US king size, but scaling US king size up to Revival Beds' Emperor size will not significantly change the basic size of size rails, head and foot boards, etc.
    I don't have a copy of Jeff's book here in Canada, but from memory, all of Jeff's beds use similar (same ?) sized side rails, the major differences are in visible components of each bed -- the head and footboards and how the side rails attach to the head and foot rails.


    BTW
    Jeff Miller presents a design for a US Queen (or possibly US King size) sleigh bed that uses laminated ply to make the head and foot boards as single panels full width panels.
    I've built two of those designs. One for my son sized -- for what in Australia is called a 3/4 mattress -- and a second one sized for an Australian sized Queen mattress. The queen sized bed doesn't have a centre rail (the mattress support slats span the entire width of the mattress) and used a solid (floating) panel for the head board.

    what sticks in my mind from both bed builds was my father's comment that building my son's sleigh bed -- the first one we built -- required more jigs than he had ever made for any other build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    I am intrigued by your project in so far as I had not appreciated you could buy beds that size. We have a largish bed, which over here is termed a "king" size, but is equivalent to the Super King size in the Revival Beds link you provided.

    The sleigh bed is impressive and like you I would look at building it myself, but there are some logistical issues, which I don't intend as a deterrent to the project, but just as a heads up. A large bed requires a large room. A large bed is likely going to be extremely heavy, particularly if made from hardwood, which I believe would be preferable, but may be more of a challenge in shaping those scrolls. Is a mattress and bed linen readily available for the Emperor size? A quick flick through the web site seemed to indicate they supply both those products: BUT it sounds expensive (will the inheritance cover that too?) great point.

    Lastly, going back to the weight of the bed, it may not be easily moved unless it it built so it can be knocked down for this purpose. I see you are in the Shetlands so moving house may not be on the radar. Perhaps you have already tackled these issues above and they are not the barrier they may be to some.
    Quote Originally Posted by orraloon View Post
    Any of the woods on [your] list will make a good bed so whatever you like the look of. As to stain thats personal choice but for me I think if its a nice wood then an oil finish is good and it will darken the wood a bit also. Sound advice from Paul re weight and being able to move it. Being practical almost all beds need to be knock down for moving or else build it in the room and it's there for ever. I have made a few beds but nothing on that scale so can you get a mattress and bedding in that size. I would get the mattress first as I have found size can vary then scale the build around that. great recommendation Largest one I have made was what is called Queen size about 1.6m wide mattress. That called for a center rail and a fifth leg so it wont sag in the middle. If the side rails enclose the mattress leave some space so a hand can tuck in the bedding. A high bed is easier to get out of. Some modern beds are way too low so think about what's a comfortable height. It sounds like a great project so keep us all posted as you go.
    unlike John I haven't found a centre rail necessary to prevent sagging.
    The queen sized sleigh bed my father and I built didn't need one -- 1" nominal quarter sawn Tassie Oak (the 1" nominal finished at roughly 22 mm) easily spanned the distance between the side rails.
    I've also assembled a commercially made queen-size bed that used pine 4 x 2s (or possibly 4 x 3s -- it was more than 15 years ago) to span between the side rails.


    the too long to read summary of the above is
    You are located in the Shetland Islands
    Unless you have the machinery you will need already on site (table saw, jointer, planner, morticer), the cost to tool up to build just one bed could very easily exceed any potential savings a DIY build might initially present. For example, I doubt that Axminister's "free delivery" includes travelling on the ferry to The Shetland Islands.
    paying a maker £5,000 on top of the cost of the raw materials could easily represent "very good value" when it comes to your proposed bed. BTW, after allowing for the maker's overhead, £5,000 might represent only about 60 hours of actual work.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    back in Alberta for a while
    Age
    68
    Posts
    12,006

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    Robert,
    this Fine Woodworking design for a sleigh bed -- you will need to start a 14 day free trial to access the details -- should get you started

    Building a Sleigh Bed - FineWoodworking
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Millmerran,QLD
    Age
    73
    Posts
    11,098

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    the too long to read summary of the above is
    You are located in the Shetland Islands
    Unless you have the machinery you will need already on site (table saw, jointer, planner, morticer), the cost to tool up to build just one bed could very easily exceed any potential savings a DIY build might initially present. For example, I doubt that Axminister's "free delivery" includes travelling on the ferry to The Shetland Islands.
    paying a maker £5,000 on top of the cost of the raw materials could easily represent "very good value" when it comes to your proposed bed. BTW, after allowing for the maker's overhead, £5,000 might represent only about 60 hours of actual work.
    Ian

    I note that Robert built the house he lives in so he may well have a bit of machinery: Assuming he was hands on as opposed to the "Project manager."

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  10. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sth Gippsland Vic
    Posts
    4,355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robertlaurenson View Post
    Hi Paul,
    Thanks for the message.

    I'm going to make the bed so the two ends are glued together, and the side rails come off with Knock Down Fittings, that way it can be transported in bits, it will still be heavy yes, but manageable with two people
    Hi Robert .
    Being able to take a bed apart is the only way to go. One bed I made had the Base frame all glued up with Mortise and tenon and the head board bolted on later, when in place . The same could be done for Head and foot boards in a sleigh design .Though it would look a bit different to the sleigh bed in the link . It makes for a "Never to give you problems" bed.

    What sort of good knock down fittings can you get over there in UK ?
    The way beds are held together makes the difference between good and bad . Long lasting to short lived, and a pain in the behind in the years leading up to when you have to throw the bed out or fix it if you use the cheap stuff.
    Some of the methods Ive seen are probably good for 5 to 10 years .
    Some of the best Ive seen are in antique beds. French and English . Their still going strong after 200 years .

    The method used in the video that's in the link you put up looks good . But its only a single bolt . And two bolts IMHO are better . The best .
    Its a big difference with what happens between one and two bolts per rail . I don't like the idea of the new knock down stuff as much as the old way that worked . Its got to be THE most stressed join in furniture making I can think of . All the leverage and two bodies acting on compressible timber part.

    Its an interesting method they use in that video too .
    Its a bolt that must be fitted into the timbers on glue up leaving the threaded end protruding. Its at the 1.22 mark it can be seen . It looks that way .
    Rather than the older English way of inserting bolts through the end of the bed and having to sort out a way of disguising the holes like timber or brass covers .
    That sort of fitting can easily be made at home if you can weld and drill steel . If I was in the bed making business Id be making my own for sure .
    You can see just after 1.22 the threads protruding and the nut he's doing up to bring the pieces together . There is also two dowels per join . Pretty good but a stub M&T is also seen in good old stuff sometimes.
    The way French Beds Ive seen did it was to have a concealed nut or two buried in the leg end . the special bolts were slipped into the holes in each rail and tightened . The Bolts were made just for bed use . They had a turned ball head with 4 holes in the side so it could be turned with a nail punch sort of tool . Ive probably got one somewhere in my stash . The English ones were different too . A sort of coach bolt with its own washer and square head.

    There's the link again.

    Revival Beds - Our Craftsmen at Work - YouTube

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