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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
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    298

    Default Dining table build

    Hello again, I'm feeling a bit guilty as I haven't been on the site in over a year. We did a knock-down/rebuild with our house, so everything, including all my woodworking stuff went into storage and I neglected to visit. But now we're back in, most of my tools are still in storage, but with my workbench at my in-laws I can start making things again!

    My first project is to make a dining table for our new house, out of our old house. More precisely, before it got demolished, I saved some floorboards and joists and my wife has commissioned me to make a dining table from them more fitting in quality and size to the new residence than our current ikea one.

    Dimensions are going to be 1500mm x 2500mm (following the golden mean), which will allow us to seat 10-12. The top is going to be around 38mm thick, which I was going to do by having two layers of the floorboards running longitudinally. But my wife wants the top to be a double chevron pattern (like a wide W), so I needed to come up with an alternate plan. Because I'm worried about wood movement, I didn't want to have the bottom layer run longitudinally and the top layer as chevrons for fear of splits and cracks, so I have decided to make the base layer from 19mm plywood and edge it with the floorboards. Also, to make the top manageable solo, and to give freedom of movement, I'm making the top in two pieces - one chevron on each.

    Here's the first plywood piece - it's too short (by 100mm) and too narrow (by 150mm), so I need to glue on some wood to the edges. To help make it a stronger connection, I thought I would do a tongue and groove joint.

    01 first panel ready to go.jpg


    Out came the trusty Record 044, which I hadn't used since I made the bench I'm using to build the table. It worked well in the plywood, but needed a fair amount of effort to push through the layers.
    02 ploughing the groove.jpg


    2.4m of groove. All up today, I ploughed about 11m. (It sounds better in imperial: "I ploughed through over 30ft of wood today")

    03 full length groove.jpg04 both panels.jpg

    Using a test piece to work out the correct fence setting to make the tongue. Using the 044 in wood was like a hot knife through butter after the grunt-work of the plywood.

    05 test piece.jpg


    Then, after the tongue was shaped, I put a 45 degree chamfer on the bottom of the wood. Drawknife close to the line, then plane to finish.

    06 chamfer.jpg


    And then, the glue-up.

    07 first panel glueup.jpg


    That's all I had time for today. Tomorrow, I hope to put the side pieces on and maybe put the rear liner board on as well (but that one I'm going to do as a half-lap joint, partly for practice, and partly because it will be supported by the legs/frame, whereas the outer liner boards won't be).

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Mornington Peninsula
    Posts
    2,741

    Default

    Not to rain on your parade, but our Son had a table that was 1500mm wide and it was an absolute pain passing food from one side to another.

    Just food for thought...

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    298

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cava View Post
    our Son had a table that was 1500mm wide and it was an absolute pain passing food from one side to another.
    Hi cava, no rain at all - given where I'm up to in the build it's easier for me to keep the width at 1400 than add the extra liner boards to bring it to 1500. I have glued up the outside of the second piece of plywood, and when it's dry I'll put them together and have a test to see how 'reachable' it is. If I find it's getting too deep, I just won't add the extra width.

    Having said that, the reason for the width is to be able to fit two people at each end, and 4 more down the side. It's daily use won't be as a dining table - it's more likely to be used as a jigsaw/lego/homework table, with eating only taking place at it once a month or so when we have family or guests over. I'm thinking that rather than passing across, dishes will be in the centre, accessed from either side and passed along (not across).

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Mooroopna, Victoria, Australia
    Age
    33
    Posts
    228

    Default

    At that length, two matching lazy susans could be an option for you if you find the table to be to wide.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    298

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PJM16 View Post
    At that length, two matching lazy susans could be an option for you if you find the table to be to wide.
    Funnily enough, I was contemplating exactly that as a solution. When my lathe gets out of storage, that could be another project

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Riverina NSW
    Posts
    211

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    Quote Originally Posted by michael_m View Post
    Hello again, I'm feeling a bit guilty as I haven't been on the site in over a year.
    We must be following the same paths Michael. I remember your excellent work bench thread from around the same time I did mine. We've both built a Matthias Wandel bandsaw, a Michael Storer canoe and now after a year off without posting I came back with a dining table build and look who shows up with another dining table build. FWIW, we also did a knockdown/rebuild but that was 10 years ago.

    Looking forward to to see how this table progresses, I love the idea of using parts of the old house. I regret not salvaging timber from ours which was a 60 yr old timber framed fibro/weatherboard on timber stumps. We bought it to renovate but it was a lost cause yet we lived in it for 8yrs before realising the hard truth.

    Do you know what sort of timber your joists and floor boards are? I was told ours was all cypress frame and flooring which suits the area and time it was built but I'm not so sure. Neither had that type of grain.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    298

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    Hey Canoath, what can I say? If they're right about great minds thinking alike, our minds must be pretty damn amazing . How's your canoe going? Mine's down the beach at the moment, but I'll hopefully be bringing it back up to Melbourne soon to go back out on the Yarra again.

    The floorboards are tassie oak. I'm not sure what the joists are - some sort of nondescript eucalypt with an inoffensive, mid-pale brown colour and hard as the proverbial.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Riverina NSW
    Posts
    211

    Default

    Tas Oak, that's cool. For some reason I thought it was going to be cypress but tassie oak will finish off much better I reckon. As for my canoe, thanks to two summers of algal blooms in the local lake it hasn't been in the water for 18 months or more I reckon. But it's holding up well despite being upturned and exposed to the elements. I gave it a wash and inspection a few weeks ago and nothing needs doing to it which I was happy with.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    298

    Default

    I managed to get down to gippsland to get some of my tools that are in storage, so newly armed with my #7, #3, W78, dovetail saw, panel saw, mitre box, measuring knife, mitre square and about 20 other things that I thought "ooh, they could be useful", I got on with it and built some more.

    The aim was to finish the lining panels on the sides so I could measure the two halves together and see how right cava was (my guess is he was pretty well on the money, and I think I will leave it at 1400, instead of going out to 1500).

    The first panel was straightforward and went together.

    08 side panels.jpg

    I don't have any clamps over 2.5m in length (and can't see myself ever needing any ever again), so I improvised by nailing it in place until the glue dried, which seemed to work. It will all be glued over with the chevrons later, so will be held on that way as well.

    For the second panel, I finished off the side pieces, getting the angles for the mitre joints just right. Now, the thing about 50 year old floorboards from an old AV Jennings home, is that they weren't select-grade to begin with, with random gum lines and interesting grain. Add to that they are dry, brittle and in some cases have been heavily impacted over the course of their life.

    It was surprising that this only happened on the last piece and not earlier.

    09 splitz ahoy.jpg

    I was planing downhill, I promise! I caught it on the return stroke, I think. It didn't help that I was using my pinky as a guide on the rear of the plane's sole to keep it square, which led to this:

    10 oh no.jpg 11 all better.jpg

    but a bit of paper towel and masking tape later there was no longer a risk of staining the timber, and time to remake the side piece.

    Then, glue-up. It looks like this.
    12 one half base.jpg

    Next, it was time to start cutting chevrons. 72 of them.

    No worries, I borrowed a nifty adjustable mitrebox with a special saw from my father, which gives accurate 45 degree cuts. Too easy!

    The timber is too wide by 1cm. Well, darn. Guess I'll have to cut them by hand then. Panel saw? Dovetail saw? I can cut accurately to a line with the dovetail saw, not so much with the panel saw, so dovetail it is. But how long should the pieces be? A couple of minutes with a calculator, pen and paper and fond (and very distant) memories of Y9 trigonometry, I have an answer: 425mm. This leaves 38mm around the perimeter for edging.

    Dovetail saw out. 3 cuts later, I have 2 pieces to make the first chevron from. Angles were good, it went together a treat. Only problem was, the chevron was 6cm too short - no matter which way I tried to put it together. But maths doesn't lie! It was 425mm, surely? Back to my calculations I went - and there in blue ink was the figure 465mm.

    Apparently, I can't read my own handwriting. Tired arm, shattered confidence, inability to tell my 2s from my 6s; so much for cutting the pieces by hand. Out came my state-of-the-art 10 year old ozito compound mitre saw. I forget how much it cost me way back then, but I have it set up to cut an accurate 45 degrees and two minutes later it repaid its initial cost, with two 465mm chevron pieces cut to order and my faith in nature and the woodworking gods restored.

    13 first chevron.jpg

    And that did me for the day. Next order of business, 70 more pieces of chevron.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    298

    Default

    I had a bit more time on Sunday morning so put the base halves together to see what they look like.
    14 base together.jpg

    It is too wide, I will cut down the end pieces to make it 1400 wide.

    Then, I faffed around with starting to work out edge trim, firstly by trying to make some old moulding planes I bought as a rainy-day project work. I can see why they cost $7 each - the blades and the soles don't match and if I want to use them I'll have a power of work reshaping one or the other. But the 2 pairs of hollows and rounds and the bill snipe might be ok to use. After wasting too much time on them, I pulled out the 050 combi-plane and had a quick attempt at putting something onto the edge.

    15 moulding attempt.jpg

    I don't really like it, but having a starting point is at least giving my brain something to work with.

    Then, on to what I should have been doing, which was cutting pieces for the chevrons. Only 60 more to go.

    16 some chevrons.jpg

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    back in Alberta for a while
    Age
    68
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    12,006

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    I know you think 1400 is too wide, but if the aim is to seat 12 people, then your table, and probably the room it is going into is too small.

    a "standard" dining place is between 23 (very squeezie) and 30 inches wide and a minimum of 12" deep.
    So with 4 people per side, your table needs to be at least 116 inches long, though a more comfortable length would be to allow 27" per person, which works out to be 132 inches or 3.35 m.
    Seat two people across each end gives a width of around 1.5m. (and you have to work out where the table legs will go.




    Then there is clearance between the table and the walls or other furniture so that people can get to and from their seats and the cook can deliver the food to the table.
    This clearance should be a minimum of 0.9 metes, though 1.2 m is better. So all up, to seat 12, you should have a space about 5.7 m long and 3 m wide.


    AND it will be bloody heavy.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    298

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    Hi Ian, many thanks; your advice is sound, and is very similar to my main source of information prior to drawing up the design; http://www.stephanwoodworking.com/Di...ons1-16-14.pdf.

    12 people is a squeezy maximum (for that once a year when extended family make a visit); the proper number for the table should be a comfortable 10: either 4 each side and 1 each end, or 3 each side and 2 each end. 2.5m was the maximum length I felt comfortable with for the room it's going into, which is just under 5.5m long. The room's width of 4m should take the table and chairs without too many issues.

    I know what you mean about the weight; it's one of the reasons I went with a two-part top; at least that way we should be able to move it from where it's being built to where it is going without too many hernias or pulled muscles. The legs are going to be trestle legs which I'll do a final assembly of in the room.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    back in Alberta for a while
    Age
    68
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    12,006

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    up front let me apologise to the Imperially challenged ...

    2500 is equivalent to about 99 inches (100 inches would be 2540 mm)
    seating 10 at a table that long results in a very squeezie 25 inches per person. My wife picked this straight off as she knows her sizes when it comes to table cloths -- a 120" long cloth is suitable for 8 - 10 people. https://www.innstyle.com/blog/wp-con...izes_Chart.pdf

    If you want to regularly seat 10 in some comfort, I really think you want to build a table at least 120 inches (3050 mm) long.
    An alternative would be to build one regular table and one (or 2) folding table(s).

    when we were kids, we had two dining tables -- a regular 6 seater and a second collapsible one that came out when required to extend the seating capacity to 10.
    In your situation, you could add a second smaller table at the end of your main table to accommodate those extra mouths who appear once or twice per year. Heck, you could add an extension each end as required. A top with either folding legs, or ones attached with knock-down fittings takes up very little space when stored on its side.


    Elanjacobs has posted a couple of times about using knock down fittings as permanent clamps for assembling big and/or trickily shaped table tops.
    I suggest that you plan on similar fittings to join the two halves of your table.


    lastly,
    chevron patterns look nice, but unless you are careful timber expansion / contraction can quickly destroy the neat look you achieved in the workshop.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  15. #14
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, NSW
    Posts
    3,330

    Default

    I agree with three things here.

    E/C
    What provision are you making for expansion/contraction. Enclosing the chevron shaped boards in a perimeter strip is a recipe for failure. When the boards expand, where will they go.

    Size
    Secondly, we had a 1500mm wide table a few years back, but I trashed it because every time someone said ‘pass me the sauce’ you had to stand up and lean over. It gets old quickly. A lazy Susan is a solution but it’s not in keeping with the look of new homes. Now we have a smaller table, and when my wife has her networking events we attach another table, purpose built - it’s all covered with a tablecloth anyway. Much better then trying to live with a behemoth, in my opinion.

    Legs
    Did you say trestle ? We had that too. Very difficult to find somewhere to put your legs and lots of sore shins.

    I really don’t like being negative, I just think raise all the issues at the beginning.
    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    298

    Default

    Thanks Ian and Aaron,

    I am somewhat concerned with expansion, but am prepared to build it and see what eventuates. I am hoping that having all the pieces glued to the plywood will limit some of the movement, and am not enclosing the chevrons on all 4 sides. The internal side of each half will butt against the other half and if installed with freedom to move, that may go some way to ameliorating some of the expansion.

    As to the size, two at each end is what the wife wants, and two at each end is what the wife will get. I don't mind making (or storing) lazy susans if that is what it takes to make the table work for passing food across. (plus, I'm looking forward to being able to spread out my hiking maps without having to fold the tops and bottoms under, and most of the material my wife buys to work with comes in 1.35m widths, so a table that can work as a layout table will be handy too - most of our regular meals will still be on the little 6-seater we have in the meals area).

    The placement of the legs (and their design) is at this stage 30cm in from the ends, and 20cm in from the sides. Two trapezoidal trestles, angled in at around 7 degrees. No shins should be at risk from the design, but I may still go for two U-shaped legs instead.

    Thank you both for your input; please do not think I am disregarding your advice - it has been of great help in my consideration of what I am doing and why.

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