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23rd June 2017, 10:43 PM #1Senior Member
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How to do a long, endgrain mitre joint?
Hey everyone,
My mum has commissioned me to make a coffee table like this: https://www.interiorsecrets.com.au/f...able-90cm.html
How would you execute the long mitre joints on all the corners? I've only really built guitars so this kind of joinery isn't really in my wheelhouse...
To break the question into 2 parts:
1. how do you make good cuts? On a big tablesaw with the blade tilted, running along the rip fence? Or using a mitre sled? Circular saw handheld with a guide clamped down at right angle? I only have a very old, sloppy, warped Triton Workcenter which I'm not at all confident could do the job with accuracy
2. Would you reinforce the joint with biscuits? Dowels?
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24th June 2017, 04:38 AM #2
so, what wood are you thinking of using?
can you glue up and flatten the two panels you will need -- one panel will form the top and sides, the other the base -- the two panels need to be brought to the same thickness where the bottom miters will be cut.
the long miters are best cut using a saw with a sliding table.
next best option is a table saw and sled.
with the right blade (tooth count, tooth shape and hook angle) the off-the-saw miters will be fine. But this assumes that the blade tilt is 45 degrees and not something that is only close to 45 degrees, and that the sled or sliding table presents the wood at 90 degrees to the table edge and that there is no curve along the length of the long miter..
you will almost certainly want to jig-up to clamp the miters
if you are lacking the equipment -- clamps, suitable saw, doweling system, etc -- I suggest you ask for help from another Melbourne based forumite.regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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24th June 2017, 07:56 AM #3SENIOR MEMBER
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You can rough cut the ends, then cut the mitre with a router bit.
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24th June 2017, 08:15 AM #4
Use your circular saw running along a guide for the rough cut, then finish off with a shooting board and plane the edges smooth.
I definitely recommend fitting either a loose tenon, dowels or biscuits into the joints; end grain to end grain glue joints are the hardest to get right and are invariably weak as wee-wee.Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.
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24th June 2017, 08:56 AM #5
good job for a domino
regards
Nick
veni, vidi, tornavi
Without wood it's just ...
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24th June 2017, 06:58 PM #6Senior Member
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Thanks guys,
Ian - a few timbers on the shortlist are Messmate, Brushbox, and Blackbutt. Getting the boards jointed, thicknessed and laminated is no problem (is that what you're referring to?).
What kind of blade would do the job the best, in terms of tooth count/shape and hook angle?
I have some possible leads on friends/places where I could access big table saws, but it does take away some of the fun of doing the project entirely in house. At this stage I'm leaning towards circular saw with a jig/track and plenty of test cuts to find the perfect 45 degrees.
What would an appropriate clamping jig for this kind of work look like?
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24th June 2017, 08:23 PM #7GOLD MEMBER
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Without really good equipment, long endgrain mitres are one of the most difficult things to do in woodworking. I would consider saving yourself some heartache and using a different joint. I don't think you're going to get it out of either a circular saw or a triton.
Mind you, if you look at the second to last photo of the example you supplied, they haven't done a very good job either.Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.
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24th June 2017, 08:30 PM #8
If you're considering investing in a track saw then that would likely do a reasonable job if fitted with a fine toothed blade designed for cross cutting.
A normal saw will also work; you can run that using a small plank as a guide.
In the end though; unless you are using a table saw I would still be finishing the joint off by hand to remove the saw marks and any burning.Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.
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24th June 2017, 08:44 PM #9Member
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How about a straight edge and skilsaw rough mitre cut, cleaning up with the straight edge and router with lock mitre bit (if you are OK with the lock showing on the ends)?
Tape the wood before cutting/routing to help reduce tear-out.
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25th June 2017, 02:25 AM #10
good to know you can thickness a 500 mm wide panel
I mentioned these variables more as an introduction to the research you might wish to do prior to buying a suitable cross cutting blade.
as one example, Freud make about 60 different 10" saw blades. Sixty is a large number, but half of them are thin kerf, the other half regular kerf, so there are only 30 choices of tooth count and shape. Some are optimised for ripping, some for cross cutting, some are combination blades, some have teeth optimised for cutting laminate boards, some are optimised for plywood, and some work best in solid wood. Some general purpose blades will cut really good clean cross grain miters in solid wood, some won't. And then there is the price, a really good cross cutting blade might cost over $200, a crappy blade might be had for less than $20.
so lots of variables that you will need to balance out based on your existing tooling and what you are prepared to invest for this one project.regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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26th June 2017, 01:21 AM #11Senior Member
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Ian - I can't thickness that wide, but it will be made from a few boards laminated together, each of which I will have no trouble thicknessing.
The more I think about it, the more I lose my enthusiasm for trying to do it at home, so I may try some contacts who may have panel/sliding table saws
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26th June 2017, 01:55 AM #12
the key to achieving good looking long grain miters is consistent thickness in the slab being cut.
If you know how and have the tools it can be done by hand, it just takes longer and involves more sweat than it would if done with machine -- a typical home workshop might use a wide drum sander to flatten the glued-up panel.
only you can decide the balance between the cost of tooling for this project vs asking to use a mate's set-upregards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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29th June 2017, 01:27 PM #13SENIOR MEMBER
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Unless your glue up is absolutely 101% spot on, you'll still have to flatten the boards after lamination. As ian has pointed out - if your boards aren't the same thickness where the mitres meet, it'll be really obvious (how do I know? cough cough, don't ask ).
I guess a key point is what you/your mother are happy with in terms of quality. Most of the furniture that can be bought in stores have pretty bad joinery so if that's the standard, well you don't have too much to lose right?.
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4th July 2017, 09:39 AM #14
Coming in late, but this is one place I would consider using one of those 'lock-mitre' bits as elver has suggested. Running along a carefully-placed, straight guide should give you a very clean, straight edge. My main reason for thinking along those lines is that it should greatly simplify glue-up for someone with basic gear. Even with strap clamps, setting-up & clamping four humongous mitres without some solid registration would be the stuff of nightmares! You could also use a hidden spline, or Dominoes, as also suggested, but that's not much help if you don't have access to a Domino, and cutting accurate spline slots into a mitre is not for the faint-hearted. Unless deadly-accurate, they are worse than useless (damhik!).
The best form of reinforcement for mitres like that would be splines laid across the joint - the long-grain to long-grain join actually gives some tensile strength (unlike internal splines running across the grain). However, that might spoil the clean, simple look you want.
Whatever you do, let your wood sit for a good while after lamination & rough-thicknessing, to be sure it has equilibrated, before final assembly. You wouldn't want your nice table de-constructing itself a week or two after delivery...
Cheers,IW
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5th July 2017, 07:21 PM #15Senior Member
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Thanks everyone for the help on this thread - I'm thoroughly convinced that without a huge thicknesser and a huge panel saw, the mitre joint is not the way to go for this project. Unfortunately Mum's next preference is just a plain IKEA style butt joint, which isn't as exciting but significantly simplifies it.
Cheers
Will
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