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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    On the left is a model of the mitred ends that will be part of this build ...



    With respect to your model on the left. Is that part of the project, or a reminder of "this is what it's supposed to look like". I only ask because since I've got my plough plane, in order to hide the grooves in the ends, I've started using mitred ends on through dovetails. Try as I might however I keep getting a cut in the wrong place, or a miter going in the wrong direction. On Tuesday evening I erred once again on a box (which I was able to hide at least), and thought I really need to create pictorials of each component. Then saw this post the very next morning, and wondered if perhaps that is your answer to cutting a joint which seems to elude visualisation.

    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    ... and saw about 1mm from the line. This will later be flushed with a chisel for accuracy.



    I started using a chisel for shaping the whole mitre, and only on my last project did I try sawing first. Apart from introducing another opportunity to do the wrong thing (see above), I was trying to work out if it actually saved me much time. I still haven't come to a conclusion, but perhaps the harder the timber, to more benefit. Do you always saw first?

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  3. #17
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    Apr 2001
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    Hi Lance

    The answer for hiding grooves is indeed a mitre, and in this case, a mitred through dovetail. There is a mitre on both sides here: the front will be chamfered, while the rear hides a rebate for the rear panel.

    This was a previous build ...









    There is a tutorial I wrote on my website, below ..

    http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...feeTable2.html

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  4. #18
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    Sep 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    Note that the end pins are not sawn on the outsides.
    ...
    Now turn the board around, and strike a vertical line at the outer pin ...
    ...
    Saw this on the diagonal only. Do both sides ...
    Hi Derek

    I enjoy your detailed posts and always learn a lot from them.

    Just a couple of questions (hopefully not too stupid )

    From the quote - is this to stop tear out when sawing?

    Also, I notice that you clamp your pieces to the table and each other when packing up for the day/night. Is this to stop movement in the timber?

    Regards Adam

  5. #19
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    Apr 2006
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    Good Morning Derek

    Adam's question prompted me to go back and re-read your original post, and this has raised a couple of questions and observations. I have been using an SCM slider - unfortunately not owned by me - and a little larger than yours.

    Jointing on Slider
    If you joint one flat side before ripping, then the slider should give a cut that is straight and smooth enough not to need jointing. This is one of the joys of the slider.

    Length Capacity of Slider
    My method of extending cuts beyond the capacity of the slider is as follows:
    1. Use hold downs to lock timber and do first cut to maximum possible length,
    2. Slide slider back so that second pass will complete the cut, lock slider,
    3. Loosen hold downs and slide timber down the slider top untill end of kerf almost touches the blade,
    4. Put combination square or double square vertically in saw kerf as far as possible from saw blade,
    5. Use square like rifle sight to line up entire saw kerf with saw blade,
    6. Tighten hold downs and undo slider lock,
    7. With saw still switched off move slider to ensure timber/kerf is fully alighned to blade,
    8. If blade touches sides of kerf go back to step 5,
    9. Make extension cut.

    This is very quick and accurate in practice, and also works when the outside edge is not straight or parallel to the fresh saw cut.

    Clamping for Cross Cuts
    Again, a slightly different technique. I use a hold down on the slider to and a bar clamp on the cross cut fence well away from the saw. This may reflect that your cross cut arm is on the trailing end of your slider and I have been using a saw with it on the other or leading end.

    That Chisel
    In the photo of the chisel wall for dovetails, beside the very nice cutting gauge (your development of the one from Tools from Japan?), there is a rather elegant looking chisel. What is it?


    Thanks, Derek. As usual have been enjoying your posts.


    Fair Winds

    Graeme

  6. #20
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    Apr 2001
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratman View Post
    Hi Derek

    I enjoy your detailed posts and always learn a lot from them.

    Just a couple of questions (hopefully not too stupid )

    From the quote - is this to stop tear out when sawing?

    Also, I notice that you clamp your pieces to the table and each other when packing up for the day/night. Is this to stop movement in the timber?

    Regards Adam
    Hi Adam

    Questions are Good .. this is what creates a thread.

    The "strike a vertical line at the outer pin " is not for tearout. It is for the mitre that needs to be sawn at the outsides. The reason I do the diagonal saw cut at first, and only later the mating mitre cut, is to retain the side of the socket for transferring tail to pin markings. Details here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...feeTable2.html

    The boards are clamped together at the day's end to limit movement.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  7. #21
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    Apr 2001
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeCook View Post
    Good Morning Derek

    Adam's question prompted me to go back and re-read your original post, and this has raised a couple of questions and observations. I have been using an SCM slider - unfortunately not owned by me - and a little larger than yours.

    Jointing on Slider
    If you joint one flat side before ripping, then the slider should give a cut that is straight and smooth enough not to need jointing. This is one of the joys of the slider.

    Graeme, that is my thinking as well.

    Length Capacity of Slider
    My method of extending cuts beyond the capacity of the slider is as follows:
    1. Use hold downs to lock timber and do first cut to maximum possible length,
    2. Slide slider back so that second pass will complete the cut, lock slider,
    3. Loosen hold downs and slide timber down the slider top untill end of kerf almost touches the blade,
    4. Put combination square or double square vertically in saw kerf as far as possible from saw blade,
    5. Use square like rifle sight to line up entire saw kerf with saw blade,
    6. Tighten hold downs and undo slider lock,
    7. With saw still switched off move slider to ensure timber/kerf is fully alighned to blade,
    8. If blade touches sides of kerf go back to step 5,
    9. Make extension cut.

    This is very quick and accurate in practice, and also works when the outside edge is not straight or parallel to the fresh saw cut.

    That is what I demonstrated. Great minds ...

    Clamping for Cross Cuts
    Again, a slightly different technique. I use a hold down on the slider to and a bar clamp on the cross cut fence well away from the saw. This may reflect that your cross cut arm is on the trailing end of your slider and I have been using a saw with it on the other or leading end.

    I use a clamp to ensure that the board is held flush against the fence (to ensure a perfectly square cut).

    That Chisel
    In the photo of the chisel wall for dovetails, beside the very nice cutting gauge (your development of the one from Tools from Japan?), there is a rather elegant looking chisel. What is it?


    Thanks, Derek. As usual have been enjoying your posts.


    Fair Winds

    Graeme
    The chisel is one of a small set I have from Veritas. As you know, I have done a lot of pre-production testing of their tools (planes, saws, chisels, etc). Usually it progresses from plastic models to mock ups to prototypes (in various stages of finish). Generally I get to keep a pre-production second (tool with flaws). Sometimes these get replaced with new tools. In this case, Rob Lee decided that he would send me a set of the PM-V11 chisels with Ebony handles. Not only that, my preference was to not have the side flats, and so I have the only round versions in existence



    These are colour photos!

    I re-finished the handles myself, ending with a very fine buff (green compound) ...


    I do have others I have purchased to make up the set for the smaller sizes (1/8" and 3/16") I use mainly in dovetailing. They have the roasted Maple handles.


    So I wind up with chisels that are blemished and cannot be given away because they carry the Veritas name. Here is a 1/4" one I ground into a fishtail shape for cleaning half-blind sockets. Rob Lee said they have theirs in the pipeline (sometime). I have no idea what their design will look like. This one is mine ...



    Stained Bubinga handle.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  8. #22
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    Sep 2018
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    Thanks very much Derek.

    Ah yes, I understand now. I also read your article, that was great.

    I wondered if it was to limit movement. I do the same but have always wondered if it made much of a difference. Now I know, thank you.

    Regards Adam

  9. #23
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    Apr 2001
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    Part 3

    I've been away from the workshop for a month, travelling around a few cities in Austria and Germany, as well as Prague. It was a good trip, but it's great to be home.


    The current build was on hold. This is the entry hall table my niece asked me to build ...





    ... and this is where we left off last time - ready to fit the first corner ...





    Past builds:
    Part 1: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...orANiece1.html
    Part 2: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...orANiece2.html


    Today we shall put the complete case together. What I wish to focus on is the dovetailing. Not just any dovetailing, but mitred through dovetailing in unforgiving hardwood (here, Fiddleback Jarrah).


    Of all the commonly used dovetails, I consider the through dovetail more difficult than the half-blind dovetail. Why ... because two sides are exposed against the single face of the half-blind.


    In my opinion, by mitering the ends, the level of complexity is tripled .. at least. Not only are there three faces now, but each needs to be dimensioned perfectly, otherwise each is affected in turn.


    This is more difficult than a secret mitred dovetail, where mistakes may be hidden.


    I have posted before on building the mitred though dovetail, and it is not my intention to do this again. Instead, what I wish to show are the tuning tricks to get it right.


    This is the model of the tail- and pin boards …





    In a wide case, such as this, it is critical that the parts go together ideally off the saw or, at least, require minimal adjustment. The more adjustments one makes, the more the dovetails will look ragged.


    Tail boards are straightforward. Let’s consider this done. Once the transfer of tails to pins is completed, the vital area is sawing the vertical lines … well, perfectly vertical.


    I use blue tape in transferring the marks. The first saw cut is flat against the tape. Note that the harder the wood, the less compression there will be, and so the tail-pin fit needs to be spot on. Where you saw offers an opportunity for ensuring a good fit: if you hug the line (edge of the tape), you get a tight fit. If you encroach a smidgeon over the line, you loosen the fit slightly.





    Saw diagionally, using the vertical line as your target …





    Only then level the saw and complete the cut …





    I do not plan to discuss removing the waste. That was demonstrated in Part 2.


    So, the next important area is the mitre. These are scribed, and then I use a crosscut saw to remove the waste about 1mm above the line on both the tail- and pin boards …





    Now we are ready to test-fit the boards …





    Mmmm …. not a great fit …





    … even though the mitres at the sides are tight …





    The problem is that the mitres are fat, and the extra thickness is holding the boards apart …





    Even sawing to the lines here is likely to leave some fat, which is why it is a waste of energy to try and saw to the line in this instance. It needs to be pared away with a chisel, using a 45-degree fixture.





    As tempting and logical as it seems to pare straight down the guide …





    … what I experience is that the chisel will skip over the surface of the hard wood rather than digging in and cutting it away. What is more successful is to pare at an angle, and let the corner of the bevel catch the wood …








    This is what you are aiming for …








    Okay, we do this. And this is the result …








    Not bad. But not good enough. There is a slight gap at each side, quite fine, but evident close up.


    The source is traced to the mitre not being clean enough. It is like sharpening a blade – look for the light on the edge. If it is there, the blade is not sharp. If there is a slight amount of waste on the mitre, the case will not close up.





    To clear this, instead of a chisel – which is tricky to use for such a small amount – I choose to use a file. This file has the teeth on the sides ground off to create “safe” sides.





    Try again. The fit is now very good. I will stop there.








    So, this is the stage of the project: the case is completed. This is a dry fit …





    One end …



    The other …





    The waterfall can be seen, even without being smoothed and finished …





    Regards from Perth


    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  10. #24
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    Staggering precision and attention to detail.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernmc View Post
    Staggering precision and attention to detail.
    Not only, but in so many directions at once. Have always been in awe of Derek's posts but again this takes it to a new level. Thanks for showing us

  12. #26
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    As always, thanks for sharing, Derek! Your 'tutelage' in these posts is top notch and must benefit so many of us. Very generous.

    Regards Adam

  13. #27
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    I really enjoy the detail in your posts, Derek, and the way you explain WHY you do things a particular way. I love the care that you take. I can never understand why, when we're doing woodwork for pleasure, anyone would try to rush things.
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  14. #28
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    Part 4

    Having completed the dovetailing of the case, the next step is to bevel the front face, and rebate the rear for a back panel.


    I had been considering a cove in place of a bevel, however when I mocked this up it came across as appearing too busy. So, back to the bevel.


    The angle for the bevel was finalised at 55 degrees. This enabled a 6mm (1/4") flat edge and a bevel that ran to roughly 4mm of the first dovetail. A 45 degree bevel would run into the dovetail.


    The lines for the bevel were marked and then roughed out on the table saw ...





    The table saw is a slider, and the rip fence was used to position spacers, before clamping a panel for cutting the bevel.


    The bevel was then finished with a hand plane ...





    This Jarrah is particularly interlocked but planes well with both a high cutting angle (the little HNT Gordon palm smoother) and a close set chipbreaker (the Veritas Custom #4).


    Once the bevels were completed, the rear rebate was ploughed ...








    Now the panels could be assembled into a case once again, and the work examined for tuning.


    Three of the bevels needed tuning. This ranged from a smidgeon here ...





    ... to a largish amount ...





    The case was dissembled and the bevelled edged planed down, re-assembled, checked, pulled apart again, planed ...


    The rebates at the rear turned out to not require any tuning, with the exception of one corner ...





    ... where I had obviously forgotten to plane! :\


    That was easily rectified ( ... but the case had to be dissembled again). Finally, this is the rear of the case and the completed rebates ...





    This is a rebated corner ...





    Here are the front bevelled corners ...








    This illustrates by the mitres on the corners of the dovetailed case needed to be perfect. Any undercutting would show here.





    Next, the drawer dividers need to be done. I'll mention here - since I would appreciate the thoughts of others - that this area has been my biggest headache.


    The reason is that my niece would like the drawers to have the appearance of a single board. However, to achieve this, because of the bevels, is quite complicated.


    First of all, the table cannot have just two drawers. The width of the drawers will be greater than their depth, and this would likely lead to racking. Consequently, I plan to build three drawers, which will be more favourable for the width vs depth ratio..


    Secondly, if the drawers have dividers between them, which they need (since I do not do runners), then there will be a gap between the drawer fronts (which will not flow uninterrupted).


    As I see it, there are two choices: the first is to build the drawers with planted fronts. This is not a method I like (but it may be expedient). The second option is to set the dovetailed drawers sides back (recess them) to account for the internal drawer dividers.


    Thoughts?


    Regards from Perth


    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  15. #29
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    Coming together really beautifully, Derek.

    I reckon the second option.

    And if I understand correctly (that the dividers would extend fully to the front and back of the carcase) you'd make the drawer sides that are adjacent to the dividers thicker by 50% of the divider's thickness, then 'rebate'/thickness that side by that 50% all the way from the back of the side to the drawer front.

    Something like this (where I've indicated the waste).
    20200126_155218.jpg

    Regards Adam
    Last edited by Stratman; 26th January 2020 at 03:55 PM. Reason: Added photo

  16. #30
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    Hi Adam

    What I need are lipped drawers.The question is whether I make them the easy way, which is by planting (glueing) on fronts. Or, whether I build them out of one piece, which is a lot more work as it requires creating half blind dovetails in a rebate.



    This is the work of Christian Becksvoort ...





    At this point, I am going to do it the hard way and make half-blind sockets in a rebated front. This is similar to building a secret dovetail.

    To do this for all the drawers, the insides of the case at each end will require a spacer, essentially a panel glued to the insides. Each side will be half the thickness of the two middle drawer dividers. The centre dividers will be place in a dado top and bottom.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

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