Thread: Frilly Knickers Cabinet

So it appears that I have done web frames before (tool cabinet, WIP coffee table), I just didn't know what they were!. Anyway, nice work John.

Following with interest,

Sam.

Drawers assembled.

It looks exactly the same as it did yesterday with the components sitting in the carcass.

Next comes the doors, which will be veneers over lipped panels.

IMG_1789.jpg

Pic shows drawer construction method (on an earlier job).

Drawers now complete except for the bottoms.

Doors cut to size and lipped. For my first veneering job I put 10 mm lips onto the MDF panel ... but they were too fiddly to clamp ... needed lots of clamps because the timber was so thin. Nowadays I generally make the lips 25-30 mm wide. Clamping is much easier. Also, we have plenty of timber to fasten screws to for hinges and etc.

IMG20231107124804.jpg

Didn't have any camphor laurel sapwood to match the doors, so I used the last of a batch of hoop pine used mainly for drawer sides and backs.

If you'd come to my workshop on Wednesday about lunchtime you'd have found me curled up in the foetal position in a corner, sucking my thumb and making whimpering noises.

It was time to put the veneers on the doors. First I tested the vacuum bag, as one does. I slipped in a piece of MDF and pulled vacuum. Everything worked fine. After the bag had held vacuum for 20 minutes, I glued up and assembled the doors and put them in the vacuum bag ... but it would not pull vacuum. The next ten minutes were spent resealing the bag and adding an extra clamp, but nothing worked. I had a leak and could not find it. Two days later and that leak has still not been found.

I spent the next 30 minutes working that Vacu-Vin pump, until I collapsed in a sweating, greasy heap. The veneers are on, but I doubt they will stay on. The PSI was never quite adequate.

Given that the entire cabinet is designed around those veneers, and that no more exist, this is a proper stuff-up.

If this job was going to someone else's house I'd remake the doors. However, it will be parked in a spare bedroom at our place, so I'll swing these highly suspect doors on the cabinet. If they fail, I can make new doors ... I doubt anyone will notice the change ... except me.

For the past two days I have thought about how to avoid a similar screw-up in the future. So far the only solution I've arrived at is to have a spare bag standing by. If one bag fails I can have the job in the spare bag in under five minutes. Given that the bags are cheap, that sounds OK. If anyone has a better solution, I'd be glad to hear it ... just as long as that solution does not include cauls and clamps.

That sounds like a real stress out John!

Would running around with a sponge and soapy water show up a leak I wonder? Or water and strong food dye mixed in?

My Vacuum set up used bags made up from plastic sheet joined with a yellow Blu Tack type strip of putty. Id say the same stuff would be used to plug leaks if they could be found.

Rob

Am I the only one having difficulty posting because I keep getting logged out shortly after logging in?

Originally Posted by John Samuel

If anyone has a better solution, I'd be glad to hear it ... just as long as that solution does not include cauls and clamps.

Hi John, really sorry you couldn't get the bag to close, I can imagine how you feel. The way I have been using the bag is the quick and dirty solution which involves clamping the plastic and sticky seal together between two pieces of wood the width of the bag like so:

01Glue Up inside Panels.jpg

I've used this method about 7-8 times and its never failed. The leak always seems to come from the corners of the bag end, so I never fully unstick those when removing work from the bag. I have also included a video on how to make an air tight seal using only wood and none of that black sticky stuff:

DIY Vacuum Bag Closure - YouTube

Originally Posted by auscab

Would running around with a sponge and soapy water show up a leak I wonder? Or water and strong food dye mixed in?

Hi Rob, My guess is the bag wasn't retaining suction due to the black tacky stuff not covering the opening fully. Most of the time its the corners of that opening that tend to leak. The bags them selves are very thick and machine closes at all the seams.

Originally Posted by John Samuel

Am I the only one having difficulty posting because I keep getting logged out shortly after logging in?

I had that issue a couple of days back. Thought it was an issue my end. McAfee and VPN play havoc mostly with sending emails. Seems some hosts don't like VPN.

Nice work on the build. I hit like above - however that was more a "I feel you pain" sympathy pat on the back reassurance. We've all been there at some stage, sadly!

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

I had that issue a couple of days back. Thought it was an issue my end. McAfee and VPN play havoc mostly with sending emails. Seems some hosts don't like VPN.

Nice work on the build. I hit like above - however that was more a "I feel you pain" sympathy pat on the back reassurance. We've all been there at some stage, sadly!

Not using a VPN.

The problem seems to come and go.

It's a mystery to me!

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

I've used this method about 7-8 times and its never failed. The leak always seems to come from the corners of the bag end, so I never fully unstick those when removing work from the bag. I have also included a video on how to make an air tight seal using only wood and none of that black sticky stuff:

I have used the same method for several years, EagerBeaver, so I am reasonably confident the problem is not the sealing at the mouth of the bag and the corners, which are always clamped off. I'll have another look today.

Originally Posted by auscab

That sounds like a real stress out John!

Would running around with a sponge and soapy water show up a leak I wonder? Or water and strong food dye mixed in?

My Vacuum set up used bags made up from plastic sheet joined with a yellow Blu Tack type strip of putty. Id say the same stuff would be used to plug leaks if they could be found.

Rob

I'll have a careful look today, Rob. What I'll try to do is to pump up the bag and find the leak that way.

Bother, spit and darn. I keep getting logged out. This is the third attempt to post.
******************************************************************
Please test my thinking here.


I blew up the vacuum bag like a balloon with air from my compressor, but couldn't find a leak.


But then I surmised that perhaps I should not expect to find it that way. The leak is only small. When I draw vacuum, I am creating about 13 PSI. That's enough to suck lots of air through even a tiny leak. But when I blow it up, the PSI inside the bag will be miniscule by comparison. Long before the pressure got close to 13 PSI the bag would explode. Perhaps under such low pressure the same defect would not push air through, making the leak all but undetectable.


Does that sound rational?


At any rate, I've had a good look and can't find the leak. The only possibility that I can imagine remaining is one that I had previously discounted; that despite using four clamps the mouth of the bag is leaking. The tacky tape is not very tacky any more, but I had assumed that the clamping pressure would seal the mouth. To test this I need some new tacky tape, and because I have run out more was ordered this morning. It peeved me a bit that the postage and handling was more than the tape, but it happens.


Now I wait for the tape. Tomorrow I might make the plinth and the lid which are almost identical. In this pic is a display cabinet made over 20 years ago. Please note how the plinth for the display part of the cabinet (which is also the top of the lower cabinet with the drawer) is the same as the lid, with the lid flipped over. I'll use a router tool that will give an elliptical edge, but the effect will be similar.

Display Cabinet.jpg

Originally Posted by John Samuel

The tacky tape is not very tacky any more, but I had assumed that the clamping pressure would seal the mouth.

As long as there's no interruption of the black tape across the whole of the bag mouth and its clamped properly between two pieces of wood it doesn't matter that the tape isn't tacky. Here's mine after many clamping sessions:

IMG_0065.jpg

As you can see its a mess, sometimes I'll add abit more tape here and there where there's a gap. If you're still getting a leak the only other suggestion is take a look at the valve if not already done so.

Here is also another link to making an airtight seal:

The Vacuum Bag Closure