Thread: Frilly nickers cabinet

MULTIPLE WINS - love it

Wifey happy
get to play with your tools
get to build your skills
get to make something lasting and beautiful

awesome

Thanks, guys.

If you are into cabriole legs its worth considering making a sled (providing the legs can be cut from timber no larger than 50 mm square). The idea came from a bloke using a sled on youtube.

The sled is the template. Mark out the leg ... cut on bandsaw ... clamp into sled ... run over moulder ... four perfectly matching legs that require only rounding off in no time at all. The only downside is that you need a new sled for each leg size. Only have one now, but as the need arises for different sizes, new sleds will be made up. The limiting factor is the length of the cutter on the moulder. Two inch is the biggest I can find.

Great stuff john. Keen to see host his plays out.

Trav

I seek guidance from the brains trust. About to embark on making the vacuum press then the doors for this cabinet. The doors are recessed into the top and sides of the cabinet.

The design calls for doors made with an MDF panel, edged with wood and then the 2 mm laminates will be glued on so the laminates extend all the way to the edge. The current plan is to use a 20 mm strip of wood on the edges that take hinges and screws, and only 10 mm elsewhere. The doors are curved top and bottom, see pic.

A restriction of the vacuum press is that the laminates cannot be bigger than the substrate. I need to make the substrate panel slightly oversize, glue on the laminates and then trim the door back to size.

Sketch.jpg

The bottoms of the doors I think I can handle. But the tops have a fairly tight curve, and bending 10 mm timber around that shape is not going to happen cold.

So far, I can see three options:

1. Somehow steam/heat the strips and then bend and fasten them ... never done this before.
2. Glue on (say) three strips about 3 mm wide each ... that is to build up a series of laminates.
3. Make the top six or seven inches of the door timber, and simply cut it to shape.
4. Cut the curved shape out of solid timber.

Because It is the simplest, I was initially drawn to the third option, but am concerned about wood movement (although doors only 200 mm wide) and that the join between MDF and timber might eventually photograph through the door laminates.

Any advice or guidance will be gratefully accepted.

Thanks,

John

Looking good John. I was interested in seeing what you are up to as I have an order for a lingerie chest from my wife, which I plan for early next year.

I seldom use rasps, mainly because they result in more hand sanding to finish off.

Rasps should cut down on the sanding, not increase it. A coarse rasp to waste away wood fast, then a medium or fine rasp to smooth it over. Sanding or scraping finishes the shape. Relying on a sanding wheel to follow a bandsaw will limit the complexity of the shapes you can create.

Looking forward to the progress.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Rasps should cut down on the sanding, not increase it. A coarse rasp to waste away wood fast, then a medium or fine rasp to smooth it over. Sanding or scraping finishes the shape. Relying on a sanding wheel to follow a bandsaw will limit the complexity of the shapes you can create.

Bother, spit and darn ... I fear you grant me far too many skills, Derek.

As a relative novice I am flat out doing the simple stuff. Complexity is a little way off yet, but I keep plodding along. Thanks for the advice.

Cheerio!

John

Nice design,, John, and I like the way the legs have come up. I'd use a rasp, m'self, but if you ever decide to go down this track, use a pattern makers rasp, e.g. Aurion, rather than a cheapy. You'll be surprised at how much control you have. Also, a scraper after the sander will leave you with very little sanding.

Re the edging at the top, I'd go for 3mm veneers. Make an outside form to hold them in place. I'd use something like Techniglue. Can you make it oversize and shape it back down to size after veneering?

Originally Posted by AlexS

Re the edging at the top, I'd go for 3mm veneers. Make an outside form to hold them in place. I'd use something like Techniglue. Can you make it oversize and shape it back down to size after veneering?

No ... because I'll be using a vacuum press the veneers for the doors must be slightly smaller than the substrate. But I think veneers would work.

Cheerio!

John

Originally Posted by John Samuel

I seek guidance from the brains trust. About to embark on making the vacuum press then the doors for this cabinet. The doors are recessed into the top and sides of the cabinet.

The design calls for doors made with an MDF panel, edged with wood and then the 2 mm laminates will be glued on so the laminates extend all the way to the edge. The current plan is to use a 20 mm strip of wood on the edges that take hinges and screws, and only 10 mm elsewhere. The doors are curved top and bottom, see pic.

A restriction of the vacuum press is that the laminates cannot be bigger than the substrate. I need to make the substrate panel slightly oversize, glue on the laminates and then trim the door back to size.

Sketch.jpg

The bottoms of the doors I think I can handle. But the tops have a fairly tight curve, and bending 10 mm timber around that shape is not going to happen cold.

So far, I can see three options:

1. Somehow steam/heat the strips and then bend and fasten them ... never done this before.
2. Glue on (say) three strips about 3 mm wide each ... that is to build up a series of laminates.
3. Make the top six or seven inches of the door timber, and simply cut it to shape.
4. Cut the curved shape out of solid timber.

Because It is the simplest, I was initially drawn to the third option, but am concerned about wood movement (although doors only 200 mm wide) and that the join between MDF and timber might eventually photograph through the door laminates. the joint shouldn't telegraph through 2mm veneers - especially if you allow the glue about a week to cure before sanding

Any advice or guidance will be gratefully accepted.

Thanks,

John

Hi John

I'm not sure what you have in mind for the top of the doors.
Do the doors close onto a curved panel inserted into the frame, or are the curved panels part of the door? -- sort of like a curved top rail?
Do you want a frame and panel effect on the outside edges, or a clean to the edge effect?

lastly, what sort of hinges will you be using?

my inclination is to lip the MDF panels with 10mm solid wood strips (using 20mm or 25mm on the hinge side)
For the top curve I'd use a variant of segmental construction -- cut the MDF in a series of steps to the approx shape, glue on the lippings and then shape to final profile after the veneer is on -- very sharp tools will handle the cross grain.


However, I think the bottom of the doors will be the most tricky. To look just right, I think you will need to break out the carving tools.
Glue two layes of 3mm thick contrasting veneer to the bottom 1/4 of each door.
plane and sand this veneer so it is the full thickness where it will be seen but ramp it down to 0mm about 200mm from where the top veneer will be cut away to reveal the contrast.
Finish and wax the section which will be visible
shape the top veneer layer and glue it on being sure to carefully position the inside bottom corner.


good luck

Originally Posted by ian

Hi John

I'm not sure what you have in mind for the top of the doors.
Do the doors close onto a curved panel inserted into the frame, or are the curved panels part of the door? -- sort of like a curved top rail?
Do you want a frame and panel effect on the outside edges, or a clean to the edge effect?

lastly, what sort of hinges will you be using?

my inclination is to lip the MDF panels with 10mm solid wood strips (using 20mm or 25mm on the hinge side)
For the top curve I'd use a variant of segmental construction -- cut the MDF in a series of steps to the approx shape, glue on the lippings and then shape to final profile after the veneer is on -- very sharp tools will handle the cross grain.


However, I think the bottom of the doors will be the most tricky. To look just right, I think you will need to break out the carving tools.
Glue two layes of 3mm thick contrasting veneer to the bottom 1/4 of each door.
plane and sand this veneer so it is the full thickness where it will be seen but ramp it down to 0mm about 200mm from where the top veneer will be cut away to reveal the contrast.
Finish and wax the section which will be visible
shape the top veneer layer and glue it on being sure to carefully position the inside bottom corner.

good luck

Ian,

You are a genius! The veneers need to run the full width of the doors (no frame and panel effect). The wood lipping to the MDF will be visible only from the edges. The top rail is fastened to the cabinet, finishes flush with the front of the doors, and will be shaped to match the doors. I plan to hide a small fluoro light behind that top rail and to mirror the sides and back of the upper section of the cabinet.

The segmented sections approach had not occurred to me, but that is exactly what I plan to do at the tops of the doors. I think I can handle the bottoms with (say) two or three laminations. A test run will be done on some scrap first.

Actually, I am now challenging lipping the MDF at the bottom at all. The doors are 200-250 mm from the floor. Will the bottom edges be visible? I'll cut a short section of MDF to shape, clamp it to the cabinet and look. I suspect the edge will just be visible, but the test will reveal all.

At any rate, I now seem to have workable solutions.

Planning to use three morticed brass butt hinges for each door ... unless you have a better idea. The doors are recessed into the cabinet frame, and finish flush with that frame.

Thank you very much for your guidance! The brains trust here is priceless.

Finally, one more question. The plan is to put something like billiard table felt on the bottom of the upper section of the cabinet, which is a jewelry cabinet. How to do this? I had imagined covering a shaped piece of 3 mm MDF with felt and glueing that into place with a series of blobs of contact cement. That way I could slide a scraper between the felt covered MDF and the bottom of the cabinet to cut through the contact cement if ever it was necessary to replace the felt. But I can't help but believe there must be a better way. Any ideas?

Cheerio!

John

With the felt you can get felt with a stick backing from the art shops and some $2 shops have seen it up to A3 in size and lots of colour to pick from
You will have to make sure you give inside of those draws a good sand you would not want a splitter .........

Originally Posted by John Samuel

Ian,

You are a genius! The veneers need to run the full width of the doors (no frame and panel effect). The wood lipping to the MDF will be visible only from the edges. The top rail is fastened to the cabinet, finishes flush with the front of the doors, and will be shaped to match the doors. I plan to hide a small fluoro light behind that top rail and to mirror the sides and back of the upper section of the cabinet.

The segmented sections approach had not occurred to me, but that is exactly what I plan to do at the tops of the doors. I think I can handle the bottoms with (say) two or three laminations. A test run will be done on some scrap first.

Actually, I am now challenging lipping the MDF at the bottom at all. The doors are 200-250 mm from the floor. Will the bottom edges be visible? I'll cut a short section of MDF to shape, clamp it to the cabinet and look. I suspect the edge will just be visible, but the test will reveal all.

At any rate, I now seem to have workable solutions.

Planning to use three morticed brass butt hinges for each door ... unless you have a better idea. The doors are recessed into the cabinet frame, and finish flush with that frame.

Hi John

before you go any further, check that your proposed hinge arrangement will work with the recess and the drawers -- DAMHIKT

Finally, one more question. The plan is to put something like billiard table felt on the bottom of the upper section of the cabinet, which is a jewelry cabinet. How to do this? I had imagined covering a shaped piece of 3 mm MDF with felt and glueing that into place with a series of blobs of contact cement. That way I could slide a scraper between the felt covered MDF and the bottom of the cabinet to cut through the contact cement if ever it was necessary to replace the felt. But I can't help but believe there must be a better way. Any ideas?

Make a shallow tray to fit into the recess. Glue the felt to the base of the tray (and place some pieces of thicker felt underneath the tray to prevent scratching)

Alternatively, place the MDF covered felt inside the tray


Splinters?
sand and shellac the inside of the drawers

Originally Posted by ian

Hi John

before you go any further, check that your proposed hinge arrangement will work with the recess and the drawers -- DAMHIKT

I know how you know that ... as the poem says ... been there before. The doors need to open more than 90 degrees to allow the drawers to slide out, but SWMBO is OK with that.

Originally Posted by ian

Make a shallow tray to fit into the recess. Glue the felt to the base of the tray (and place some pieces of thicker felt underneath the tray to prevent scratching)

Alternatively, place the MDF covered felt inside the tray

Ahhh ... your mention of a shallow tray prompted another idea. It should not be too tough to make a sliding shelf that sits on the bottom of the cabinet. That would allow Sweetness and Light to slide the shelf out when looking for jewelry. It could even run on spring loaded drawer runners that lock when closed and pop open when given a push from the front. Food for thought.

Thanks again for the feedback, fellas. Minding the grandurchins today, hopefully doors get made Saturday.

Cheerio!

John

Doors are now made. Turned out to be easier than I thought because fewer segments were required than initially imagined. First pic shows doors cut to the shape needed to add timber lips.
Z shape MDF doors.jpg

Next pic shows the book-matched veneers being edge glued. Ian (from Sydney), please note the wedges ... thanks for that idea.
Z glue veneers together.jpg

Third pic shows some lips glued into place ... held by clamps and wedges.
Z lip edges of MDF.jpg

Fourth pic ... doors lipped all round.
IMAG0441.jpg

Fifth pic, close up of lipping at bottom of doors.
IMAG0442.jpg

Sixth shot shows my supervisor, PJT, overseeing the vacuum press. At this stage I was still extracting air. Titebond PU glue was used (long open time allowed me to make and press both doors together). Used an 1800 X 600 X 16 mm MDF board as a platern, to keep everything flat. Each door is wrapped in greaseproof paper so glue sqeezed out does not become a problem.
Z Into vacuum press.jpg

Its a bit intimidating having PJT in the shop. He is so accomplished that beside him I look even more like a novice than is usually the case.

Final pic is of the doors trimmed to shape. The cabinet is lying on its back on the assembly table with the doors resting in their rebates. So, the perspective is all wrong, but the general idea is captured ... I hope.
Z trim and shape doors.jpg

Again, Thanks to Ian, IanW and Wongo who alerted me to my wood expansion sins and prompted me towards a solution that has now allowed me to make these doors.

Cheerio!

John