Thread: Lingerie Chest

Derek
One problem that can occur is joint starvation where the glue is quickly absorbed by the wood, this can be overcome by applying glue that is thinned down to 10 - 20 % and allowed to dry. The joint is then made later with full strength glue.
However, it sounds like you have have correctly identified the problem for your joint failure.

If I am doing a glue up that does not require a lot of glue, or a relatively complex one that requires a bit of time to get several joints together simutaneously then I would use the LHG, as the working time is better.

If it is a job that is going to use a lot of glue then I would go the HHG route to save on cost.

I use a small electric wax heater with a thermostat as used by beauticians, and put the glue pearls and water into a glass jar in a water bath in the heater. At the end of a day I put the glass jar into the fridge and simply reheat later. I suspect you could get a couple of weekends out of a batch doing this, but I have never had a need to go more than three or four days, which has not been any problem.

i suspect the unreliable issues may stem from people buying the glue from retailers who have low turnover and the glue may have been sitting on a shelf for a long time.

Regards

Originally Posted by derekcohen

......A second question is "why spring at all". Some like to do this and others argue that it is not necessary, that glue is tougher than wood. In my book, it is important to ensure that the ends of a panel contact each other. If there is any curvature to mating sides (and often this is difficult to see - which is the point), extra clamping at the ends creates two tension sections .. where as the spring joint only creates one tension point. But the spring must be almost imperceptible, as in the photo I posted....

Derek, I use a touch of 'spring' on joints where the ends are going to show, the reason being I certainly don't want the ends opening up on a table or similar. Using 'spring' really only makes sense if you are pretty certain the wood you are glueing is likely to be at a slightly higher MC than it will assume once the item is in place. As you say, it only needs a touch, and if I'm glueing up at a time of year when I know the MC is at its lowest ebb, I usually do a straight joint. For panels, I rarely bother with any spring, just go for as perfect mating surfaces as I'm capable of achieving. I figure that even if the ends do open a fraction, it probably won't be seen ....

Originally Posted by derekcohen

......A third issue is the choice of Titebond hide glue. Well hide glue rocks ... but Titebond? I have had a number of emails warning me about its use, that it is unreliable, etc. My experience with it is not long - about two years. In that time I cannot recall a failure. It needs to be pointed out that the mortice-and-tenon joints were solid. There was no failure there.....

I recall seeing comparisons over the years and the liquid stuff held its head up in any company, iirc. Just about any glue joint when properly done, should be as strong as the wood (at least). If a joint fails. my first course is to blame myself, & only incriminate the glue if I can satisfy myself that's the only explanatoion. Once or twice it has been the glue at fault, but it's usually me.

I use the pearls because that's what I learned on (I'm a bit conservative, I'll admit), but it's a right pita when attempting any sort of complex glue-up! Preparing it doesn't take much faffing about since I chucked the old cast-iron double-boiler & got a plug-in wax-warmer, but it's still more fuss than simply grabbing a bottle & squeezing out what you need. I think the liquid glue has a much longer open time than the hot variety, too, which is one very good reason to use it...

Cheers,

I went back to post 29 in this thread and checked the jointing technique used .And checked the website .
I would not recommend jointing two panels that way, at all .
Its a little unclear because the picture is not of the shooting, but the checking I think .
A shooting board sure,made the right way. or in the vice but not off the edge of the work bench
It's not done that way, and the use of an edge plane is asking for trouble , if not guaranteeing it

Hi Rob

Using the bench as a surface to shoot edges is a time-honoured method. Using an edge plane to create a spring joint is not traditional, but I have used it forbears very successfully with thin boards ... just not well with the one panel here Fortunately, the other panel was fine.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I use a small electric wax heater with a thermostat as used by beauticians, and put the glue pearls and water into a glass jar in a water bath in the heater. At the end of a day I put the glass jar into the fridge and simply reheat later. I suspect you could get a couple of weekends out of a batch doing this, but I have never had a need to go more than three or four days, which has not been any problem.

Basil, thanks for this. I shall look into getting one ... if it doesn;t work for hide glue, at least I will have smooth legs!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[QUOTE=IanW;1875225]
I recall seeing comparisons over the years and the liquid stuff held its head up in any company, iirc. Just about any glue joint when properly done, should be as strong as the wood (at least). If a joint fails. my first course is to blame myself, & only incriminate the glue if I can satisfy myself that's the only explanatoion. Once or twice it has been the glue at fault, but it's usually me. [QUOTE]

Hi Ian

I soooo wanted to blame the glue! Not my fault at all!!

I use the pearls because that's what I learned on (I'm a bit conservative, I'll admit), but it's a right pita when attempting any sort of complex glue-up! Preparing it doesn't take much faffing about since I chucked the old cast-iron double-boiler & got a plug-in wax-warmer, but it's still more fuss than simply grabbing a bottle & squeezing out what you need. I think the liquid glue has a much longer open time than the hot variety, too, which is one very good reason to use it...

Cheers,

You see, THAT is what I want to avoid! You have much more patience than I.

Regards from Perth

Derek

So back to the repair.

The face needed a minimal amount of scraping to level the joint ...



... before I called it good and re-glued and pinned the panel inside the frame.

The repaired panel is on the left ...





Reinforcing strips were added to the rear - I had planned to do this anyway to beef up the thin panels. They will not be seen (on the inside) but will offer a little more reliability ..



Some may be interested in the supports I built to aid accuracy in dimension and to keep everything square. The first was the base, which also will enable the chest to be moved around later ..





The other clamps across the top ..





So now we are back to clamping all on the jigs, with an added section of MDF clamped to the rear. The plumb bob ensures that vertical and centre is created, and may be returned to at any time ...



Once this is done, the inside perimeter can be traced onto the MDF. The MBF is moved to the bench, where the drawer dividers are drawn in. This is to act as a template.

A line is drawn down the centre of the cabinet template, and the dimensions first marked on this centre line ...



They are then transferred to each side ..





Here is the template back supporting the chest sides ...



I moved it to the other side and it was reassuring that there was about 1mm difference in the marked outline.

Now the intention was not to use these marks as the template, but rather to create a template from them. To do this the MDF outline was sawn down the centre, and then the curved side band sawn out, with a little cleaning up done with a small block plane.



Measurements are marked both sides ..



... and then transferred to each side of one board (only) ..



The panels are clamped together and the markings transferred from one board to the other ..



Once one side is match, the boards are rotated to complete the other matching edges ...



Now we can move on to marking out angled sliding dovetails and build the draw dividers.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Basil, thanks for this. I shall look into getting one ... if it doesn;t work for hide glue, at least I will have smooth legs!

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek

This is the heater I bought several years ago, mine has been no problem and the fact that they are still for sale indicates that others have found them serviceable. With regards to ' Other ' uses, that is fine, and it may well improve your speed in the Pool. But could you please restrict the photos you post to Furniture only

Regards

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Hi Rob

Using the bench as a surface to shoot edges is a time-honoured method. Using an edge plane to create a spring joint is not traditional, but I have used it forbears very successfully with thin boards ... just not well with the one panel here Fortunately, the other panel was fine.

Regards from Perth

Derek

OK . I'm wrong
I went and re read again , you said " the bench top" , I missed that .
And from the picture I could see the boards sitting over the front of the bench .
I thought you had used the front edge of your bench to guide the plane somehow ??

Try the HHG in a plastic Bottle kept heated . As I said above .
Its a good thing .
very little waste and mess
and its fast with the prep

Rob

Originally Posted by auscab

.....Try the HHG in a plastic Bottle kept heated . As I said above .
Its a good thing .
very little waste and mess
and its fast with the prep ...

I read this post, Rob, & realised I'd missed your post on putting HHG in bottles to place in the hot water, etc. Sounds like a very smart idea! I'll give it a try sometime, if nothing else it must make applying the stuff easier than using a brush from the pot, & dripping the wretched stuff all over the place (as I always seem to do).

Apart from that, the wax warmers are perfect for part-timers like me - you can mix & heat quite small amounts, just enough for one glue-up, which minimises waste. The close-fitting lid is a bonus too, because it eliminates 95% of the evaporation, & you don't get 'skinning' the way I did with my old traditional boiler....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

I read this post, Rob, & realised I'd missed your post on putting HHG in bottles to place in the hot water, etc. Sounds like a very smart idea! I'll give it a try sometime, if nothing else it must make applying the stuff easier than using a brush from the pot, & dripping the wretched stuff all over the place (as I always seem to do).

Its great Ian .
The speed of application over brushes or knifes or sticks is very quick . You can run the bottle down the edge of a thin panel or stick while finger gauging it to the middle .
re heats out of the fridge the next day are just a short 15 to 20 second burst in the microwave .

Rob

Rob

Are you adding Urea to extend the working time and lifetime of the Glue ? Or are you just turning it over too quickly to worry about that.

Regards

Originally Posted by Basilg

Rob

Are you adding Urea to extend the working time and lifetime of the Glue ? Or are you just turning it over too quickly to worry about that.

Regards

No Urea in my glue . Ive never had any to try it out . In summer warm days are good enough and in winter I have warmed the workshop with a gas heater .That's just for the larger work. Or very important work . Pretty much what was done in the old days.

Rob

The cabinet carcase is now complete and together as a dry fit.





You cannot see the curve on the front elevation in this photo, but it is clearer in the documentation ..





It had been my intention to post the carcase with completed draw blades – this would have been the next stage in any cabinet with straight sides. However it became increasingly apparent that, as a result of the many curves, this build is a tad more complicated, and I am have been left wondering whether I would ever get to be in a position to build the drawer blades as something else kept cropping up! It was a case of “I’d better to this before I get to that as it will not be possible later. And on and on ..


It is possible – and indeed I like to hear the opinion of others here – that the sliding dovetails for the drawer blades could be marked and formed from inside the completed carcase. I am now seriously considering this method. Indeed, I cannot see an alternative. The carcase could be dis-assembled and assembled repeatedly for work to be checked, carried out, and then checked again. However the latter will cause wear on the joinery, with resulting loss of tautness and accuracy.


Let's hear your thoughts on constructing the drawer blades. The front and rear are planned to be sliding dovetails (as has so much of this construction so far).


Here is the build in detail: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...werBlades.html


Regards from Perth


Derek

I think I'd cut the dovetail trenches before glue-up, Derek. It would be far easier, I'd expect, working on one side at a time than having to manouvre the whole box & dice, & work with your head & half your body inside a box. Then glue up, being ultra careful to keep the carcase symmetrical, after which you can mark the dividers for a perfect fit against the stiles on a now firm carcase. In fact, I would've cut the trenches in the stiles before glueing the side panels together - as far as I can see, their positions are fixed in the initial design. Or did you wish to look at the finished carcase to check if the drawer depths needed adjusting? The through-trenches on the back stiles will be simple enough, but if you plan on having stopped trenches in the front stiles, so that the D/ts don't show, it's going to be a bit awkward cutting them now, with the panels getting in your way (unless you made up a jig & use a 'lectric router... ).

Cheers,