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Thread: Pocketholes in 16mm melamine?
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7th November 2023, 01:53 PM #1GOLD MEMBER
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Pocketholes in 16mm melamine?
I want to make some upper cabinets for my garage workshop. The walls are already gyprocked and painted. (white!).
I think I want to make them out of melamine rather than plywood, because they will be easier to keep clean. I think pocket holes will be fine because its a workshop and I can probably find a way to hide the ugliness.
Am I nuts to do this with pocket holes? I don't want it to fall apart.
I have used pocket hole joinery on 18mm melamine on a small cabinet in my previous shed. I remember when I tried with 16mm melamine it did not go well. Has anyone else had success with pocket holes on 16mm melamine? If so, any pointers for me?
The reason I'm thinking 16mm rather than 18mm is not just cost but also because 18mm is so heavy.
I am in SEQ but I could look for MR melamine.
Also, is it better to use MR MDF or MR particle board for melamine shop cabinets, if I use pocket holes?My YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/2_KPRN6I9SE
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7th November 2023, 02:07 PM #2GOLD MEMBER
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Confirmat screws?
Another question I have. Should I use confirmat screws to screw it all together instead of pocket holes?
My YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/2_KPRN6I9SE
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7th November 2023, 05:54 PM #3
I strongly suggest not using pocket hole in particle board, just use the confirmat screws as you normally would
The person who never made a mistake never made anything
Cheers
Ray
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7th November 2023, 06:59 PM #4GOLD MEMBER
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Pocket holes are for solid wood, and even then you need to be careful of the timber you're using. Pocket holes in any kind of engineered board is begging for cracking and splitting problems.
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7th November 2023, 08:59 PM #5SENIOR MEMBER
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first off don't use those kreg system thingies.
Second and most important. What are you putting in the cabinets? Particle board, when standard construction methods are used, is pretty good for average kitchen loads but shop loads... How much weight you plan to load them up with will dictate material and method of construction.
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7th November 2023, 09:44 PM #6
Like everyone else says; don’t use pocket hole joinery.
Unless you have a need to take them apart again in the future why use confirmat screws, or any screws for that matter? Dowels or biscuits (real ones made from beech, not that pine crap made by Bix) have been used by European kitchen cabinet makers for decades; if you design the joints so all the loads are in a shear plane they are plenty strong.Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.
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8th November 2023, 07:32 AM #7SENIOR MEMBER
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In answer to the fixing I definitely would not use pocket holes use screws to hold the thing together.
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8th November 2023, 04:31 PM #8GOLD MEMBER
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[QUOTE=The Spin Doctor;2321808]first off don't use those kreg system thingies.
Second and most important. What are you putting in the cabinets? Particle board, when standard construction methods are used, is pretty good for average kitchen loads but shop loads... How much weight you plan to load them up with will dictate material and method of construction.[/QUOTE
That is an excellent point. It would be tempting to put heavy things on top of them. Should I be using plywood instead?My YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/2_KPRN6I9SE
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8th November 2023, 05:05 PM #9... and this too shall pass away ...
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At the risk of repeating what many have already said, please do not use pocket holes on particleboard or MDF.
A critical characteristic of particleboard is Internal Bond, along with Modulus of Rupture (there are others, but these are relevant to your question). The internal bond strength is not good enough to satisfactorily hold pocket screws. A cabinet made that way is likely to disassemble itself in service.
Even confirmat screws are iffy, depending on the load. Loose tenons, dowels or biscuits are a better approach. Occasionally I'll use a mix of loose tenons and screws, where the strength comes from the tenons and the screws act as clamps to hold things together until the glue goes off.
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8th November 2023, 05:15 PM #10SENIOR MEMBER
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Case for Pocket holes:
- You're in need of something quick
- You plan on pulling it apart at some point
- You don't have many clamps
- You lack skills to use alternate methods
- You're not planning to move whatever you're building any time soon
If you answered no to any of the above, i'd use alternate methods. The biggest challenge with building with confirmats only is drilling the holes plumb, this is where pocket hole come into a league of their own.
The biggest issue with pocket holes is their ability to withstand racking forces, if you incorporate alternate building processes that addresses this, pocket holes can be utilised. But as many others have pointed out, there are better building methods for stronger cabinets. Whether you need this additional strength is dependent on your design, personal requirements etc.
For example my mitre station is made entirely out of reclaimed office work/ikea office desks held together mostly with brad nails, it was constructed over a weekend some 9 years ago and its still in operation. It'll get replaced at some point in the future, but at this stage apart from some mild racking it works fine. Pocket holes would have done a much better job, but at the time i needed a station but didn't want to dedicate time/resources to something that was a low priority.
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8th November 2023, 06:28 PM #11GOLD MEMBER
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8th November 2023, 06:36 PM #12
The only pocket holed build I did was using Robertson (square Drive) screws in 19mm plywood in an old cabinet ages ago .It was still holding up when we gave the cabinet away.
Johnno
Everyone has a photographic memory, some just don't have film.
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8th November 2023, 07:11 PM #13SENIOR MEMBER
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8th November 2023, 11:21 PM #14
I used 18 mm melamine rather than 16 mm for the cabinet carcasses in my workshop because the extra 2 mm makes them much more tolerant of errant driven screws.
Also advise against pocket holes; they are for real wood. I just used 65 mm chipboard screws, but pre drilled even though they are self tapping. No screws within 50 mm of a corner.
you could hang your cabinets in French cleats?
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9th November 2023, 10:03 AM #15Senior Member
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Contrary to what everyone else has said, I used pocket holes to put together the 16mm melamine cabinets in my shop. I also used melamine glue on all joins. I used 6mm mdf as the backing (glued and brad nailed). They are holding together just fine. They feel solid. They are mounted on wheels and I constantly move them around a fair bit.
I've been using them for about a year now, so still relatively new. Time may tell a different story.
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