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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    Dom, you need one of these

    Wow
    Thatís cheating [emoji849]

    Cheers Matt,

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  3. #107
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    Feb 2003
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    used to live in Sydney, now it's Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    That’s cheating [emoji849]
    no more than using a beam saw


    or
    regards from Canada

    ian

  4. #108
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    Mar 2015
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    Melbourne, Vic, Australia
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    Yes very cool. If one were going to timber frame for a living a Maffel bandsaw, mortiser, drill guide/press and beam saw, as well as a huge circ saw would be a great investment... just not for a small garage lol.

    No progress lately. Too busy with work and other stuff. Plan to get back to it over my 2 week Christmas break.

    Cheers, Dom

  5. #109
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    USA
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    58
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    Hi Dom,

    Sorry for the delay...It got really busy around here with the holiday's, farming, and too many joints to cut...LOL!!!

    To some of your query and shared points...

    Quote Originally Posted by DomAU View Post
    ...My frame tapers from 3.3m wide at the front to 2.75m wide at the rear, with side perpendicular to the front and one side tapered at about 4.2 degrees. So all of the wall plates on that side are angled to the posts at 4.2 degrees as the posts remain parallel/perpendicular to the front.
    ...
    WOW...!!!...Color me impressed...

    Pulling that off Dom is in the skill sets of a well seasoned (and experienced) Timberwright...Good Job!!!

    I understand better your challenges and thinking...


    Quote Originally Posted by DomAU View Post
    ...I imagine it would have been more difficult for me to cut the through-mortises accurately at an angle through the posts vs cutting angled tenons on the wall plates to fit into normal mortises in the posts....
    Without a model in front of me...???...I couldn't say for certain, but I think I agree. My one caveat is from a design perspective, and that perhaps is subjective...???...Hard to tell without being there if there wasn't a more elegant solution that would still afford the same affect in your overall design challenge...

    Either way...WELL DONE!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DomAU View Post
    You can see the taper in the photo below. The summer beams are perpendicular to the tie-beams. Not sure if that explains what I meant?
    It did...for the most part...

    One point of observation...I don't see an actual "Summer Beam" anywhere in your design...I see primary bent beams, joists and connecting beams between your bent assemblies but not any actual "Summer Beam."

    I would also note, that much of what is written in English about these timbers within European style frames are often (in the contemporary) either misidentified, mislabeled, and or poorly explained. Its been a highlight of several talks and presentations I have done. Much of what is in "Wiki" on the subject very lacking and poorly presented...if not just plan wrong...

    In your frame (like many of old) if a Summer was employed, it would typically (but not always mind you...LOL) run between the bents connecting the mid span of the bent tie beam/girt, thus allowing for the joist to be much shorter. The joist then would attach to the Summer and the bent connecting girts. Often each of the joist would then catch the top of smaller wall posts between the primary...This is just one example of there application.

    Also, they most often (95% of the time?) are much wider than they are deep. For example the last of the examples I have seen and/or restored all ranged in size from 300mm to over 450mm wide and only 150mm to 250mm deep with reductions where they enter the bent tie beam/girt (often with a soffit or tusk tenon) to a horizontal tenon 50mm think and the full width of the beam...


    Quote Originally Posted by DomAU View Post
    I will strongly consider re-cutting my King posts and tie-beams to accept loose tenons / splines all the way through. How far up the king post would you suggest I have the spline going?
    It usually depends on loads and the PE have something to say about that...The most popular "rule of thumb" is to have the spline go up 3 times the thickness of the post itself...or a minimum of 400 mm in most cases...but not all. In yours I thing 400mm would be more than adequate...

    Quote Originally Posted by DomAU View Post
    Also, would you cut the slot in the king-post right through both sides, or leave 20mm along one edge with only one side "open"? If completely open, I assume the timber is more susceptible to cup/warp?
    I usually go all the way through and employ a locking wedge spline system of some sort (as just one example of modality) if I am concerned with timber species splitting for whatever reason...

    Since I practice 背割り - "Sewari" (this text has a Google link attached) which mean "spine divide" or "back split" method, I worry little about splitting or checking in timber...It is an acient method for relieving interstitial stresses in green timber by kerfing their entire length to the pith. There are so many counter measures to this, that I could full a good chapter in a book on the subject and hop to when done with the one I have been working on for too long...LOL...

    Quote Originally Posted by DomAU View Post
    Presumably I would still need to continue the half-dovetail in the mortise and then cut a dovetailed spline that would change to straight when it enters the King-post? I would then still wedge and peg the spline/loose-tenon into the tie-beam?
    No...Not necessarily...You have a number of choices here if you go down this path...Let me know...???...and we could discuss them, but I would need much better photos of this joint intersection as it currently exists...

    >>>

    Hello Chris P.

    These are wonderful tools and we use ours all the time...It's a great tool to have around for all manner of curve work...

    For Dom's project though, I really don't see an application...It's really outside the scope of most DIYers and part time timber framing, though If you are going to cut more than a few over a couple of years and have "curve work" or lots of volume to produce they pay for themselves quick...PLUS...they really hold there value even used if taken care of...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    Dom, you need one of these
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post

    >>>

    Hello Ian,

    We use both but have not gotten a new chain driven beam saw yet to replace the old one that seldom gets touched anymore at all....

    The band saw is completely different than the chain cutting beam saws and do work in a much different way both in accuracy and application. The Mafel version is a really sweet version of these saws (there are several manufactures that make decent ones.)

    Chain cutting beam saws cut thick timbers and panels but mainly only "straight cut" tools. They are most often employed in "gang cutting," in my experience with them and what I have seen done by collegues. There kerf finish is rather rough and they seem to find most favor with companies that use a lot of "stress skin panels" which we use none of, nor like for finishing off frames...

    We may get another one of these (we like Mafell tools) but there are others that are of more value for the price and work they do of this type...Even a good chainsaw in the hands of a skilled Timberwright can do most of what these can, and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    no more than using a beam saw
    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post


    or

    >>>

    Blessings and Happy Holidays to all!!!

    j

  6. #110
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    Thanks again J for the great info and guidance you are providing; it's much appreciated.

    Unfortunately (hopefully not too unfortunately), the pressure (laziness?) to crack on and just get this project done led to my using the king post tenons as they were and not implementing the undoubtedly superior and bomb-proof spline method suggested by J. I do appreciate the suggestion and input so please don't take this as a dismissal of your solid advice. Hopefully I don't end up regretting this decision.

    Re the Summer Beams, given my lack of experience and knowledge in this field I'm sure my nomenclature is off for a lot of what I'm talking about. I guess I have 8 small pseudo "summer beams" that I'll be placing joists across.

    Got the rafters cut and rafters/king posts fitted last week. Just need to peg and wedge and then start on the purlins.

    IMG_20190114_090205_369.jpg

    IMG_20190114_090205_357.jpg

    IMG_20190115_100135_113.jpg

    I'm getting a bit of surface checking and cracking on the beams - I need to get it clad / covered asap. Also, more worryingly I'm getting some cracking around some pegs and tenons as the timber shrinks. Hopefully be ok.

    Cheers, Dom

  7. #111
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    Apr 2018
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    Nsw
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    Can you give it a coat of turps and linseed oil or one of the decking presealers?

  8. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beardy View Post
    Can you give it a coat of turps and linseed oil or one of the decking presealers?
    I gave it a couple of light coats of Cutek oil. But to be honest I'm not a fan of the look - the cypress takes it in unevenly and goes fairly mottled/blotchy. I didn't plan for finishing / sealing but now wish I had have thought it through and tried some samples etc. Should have used some sort of presealer prior to oil? Not used to working with pine / soft wood.

    Cheers, Dom

  9. #113
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    Jul 2014
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    Brisbane
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    I've been looking (briefly) into easy to maintain finishes that would be suitable for an exterior playset made of ACQ and LOSP pine. My understanding is that a waterborne product avoids the blotchiness you're experiencing with the Cutek oil on pines including Cypress. I was thinking this Crommelin product Timber Restorer Sealer looked promising. Future coats (2 years) don't require sanding, just a clean, dry surface. I haven't tested this product though, the playset is probably 2 months away from completion. More if my weekends stay as hectic as they've been. The Crommelin product is listed as semi transparent, I'm sure there are similar products that are transparent, I just haven't researched that far.

  10. #114
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    USA
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    58
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    Hi Dom, et all,

    Well Sir...!!!...I think your frame is looking quite grand myself...Great Job!!!

    There is always methods to improve work...I pick on myself all the time, and it's something we all do...So again, I think you have done an excellent job from what I can see...

    FINISHES:

    This is a topic that comes up often among woodworkers of all ilk and style of the craft. For me it has become more a matter of "choice" and what you wish your work to look like and how you wish it to age...

    Simply put, wood is a natural and authentic material. As such, if you use an industrial material on it, that is the look you get and that is the way it will age (or actually not age!!!) Modern plastic film finishes (aka urethanes, and related) can never develop the aged and glorious patinas that tradtional finishes give us. Its just not in there alchemy to do so...They are "un-natural" and the material they are put on is the opposite of that, so the two don't really play nice together in the long run...

    I personally have used the same finish (or blend there of) for almost 40 years. It is a formulation not much different than found in several millenia old and well proven finishes. A simple (and very durable in context) mix of flax, tung, citrus oils blended with pine rosin and beeswax. If the wood item is to be outside and simple mineral based U.V. stabilizer can be added. These blends (different concentrations are possible of each depending on desire effect are fully capability of maturing and aging appropriately with the natural charm of the wood so that the patina that comes can last as long as the item itself can. Touch up and/or refinish is not complicated as the materials work naturally in concert with those from earlier applications.

    Again Dom...Great Job!!!

  11. #115
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    Double post

  12. #116
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    Little more progress over the last few weekends. Cut and fitted the purlins, cut and painted the shiplap ceiling boards, and this weekend I fitted the shiplap ceiling boards, trimmed the over-hangs and fitted the pine battens.

    IMG_20190217_212946_428.jpg

    IMG_20190224_201602_959.jpg

    IMG_20190225_083743_545.jpg

    20190310_125832.jpg

    20190310_111210.jpg

    20190310_185108.jpg

    20190311_210904.jpg

    20190311_210841.jpg

    20190311_210826.jpg

    Next weekend I hope to get the electrical conduit / cable run through the roof for lighting and to run power to the other side of the garage (need to get an electrician to connect etc but hoping to get the roof etc on before I have to get one out). I also hope to get insulation in and the sarking on. Then a couple of weeks later i'll get the roofing in and installed.

    Finally starting to see an end to this project - still a way off but at least visible now!

    Cheers, Dom
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #117
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    Slapped some colorbond roofing, including insulation and fascia boards on the garage this weekend. Now to figure out wall structure and wall cladding.

    20190409_095312.jpg

    20190409_120635.jpg

    20190330_100819.jpg

    Cheers, Dom

  14. #118
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    Looking mighty fine!!!!
    The person who never made a mistake never made anything

    Cheers
    Ray

  15. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwbuild View Post
    Looking mighty fine!!!!
    Why thank you good sir

  16. #120
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    Wow. It's been about a year since I got my framing timber, a little less if I count the month or so it took me to have some timber swapped out etc. Really thought I would have been well and truly finished with this project by now. I had hoped to finish many month ago. I guess things take longer than planned, there are a multitude of little things you don't even think of when planning a project you've never done before, and there always seems to be less time in reality than we think we are going to have!

    A bit more progress -

    Made a narrow (because of space limitations) and unconventional stud wall. Lined that with OSB, then sarking, then some furring strips and then external cladding boards were painted and fitted. Also had some hanging lights and power-points installed.

    IMG_20190428_195926_074.jpg

    20190626_184547.jpg

    Still need to fit insulation (not sure what type to fit - I only have 40mm to play with) and then internal wall cladding which will likely be marine ply.


    Made up and installed some infill panels and then cladding boards below the rafters. Idea was to try to tie it in with the house using a similar look to the existing garage panel door and house facade features.
    20190626_184514.jpg

    20190626_184626.jpg

    20190626_184501.jpg

    IMG_20190626_100230_558.jpg

    20190626_184613.jpg
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    IMG_20190626_100230_559.jpg

    Also fit the gutters, downpipes, eave lining boards etc. All this stuff takes more time than I anticipate.

    Was feeling a little unhappy with the thing for a short while, I think because of the hybridisation of a traditional timber frame with modern colours / materials in order to fit in better with the existing modern, conventional home, but it's growing on me and doesn't actually look out of place with the house in my opinion. It just isn't how I would have it looking if it was a stand-alone structure without needing to blend somewhat in with the house next to it - but it is what it is.

    Going to start work on the front doors next (picked up some Accoya pine today). Then rear doors. Then internal cladding. Then some additional structure to facilitate wood storage under the rafters, and then done with this whole business .

    Cheers,

    Dom

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