Thread: First stages in drawer building.

I despise drawer slips of all forms and do not condone their use!

The Georgian items that Fuzzie refers to are purely runners that bear the weight of the drawer and play no part in retaining the drawer bottom.

Originally Posted by Woodwould

I despise drawer slips of all forms and do not condone their use! ....

Why?

Regards from Perth

Derek

I was half joking. First and foremost, slips are downright ugly (as are muntins), they're synonymous with cheap work (as are muntins), they're unnecessary and they encroach on drawer space.

WW

What do you consider to be a better design?

What drawer thickness do you prefer to use? And if you do use 3/8" (or less) thicknesses, how do you attach the drawer sides?

Lastly, why do you think that thin-sided-and-slipped drawers have a long and traditional reputation for elegance? Surely a better concept would have been adopted long ago if they were "downright ugly ".

I don't consider that the space slips take up is a big deal - however that is why I planned to use a slightly thicker drawer base - so that I could add a rebate and flush the slip with the top of the drawer. (Of course it does depend on what goes inside the drawers).

These are important questions that you have a responsibility now to answer - there are many here that will follow your advice blindly. For myself I keep an open mind. I am very interested in what you have to write. I have yet to make the drawer bottoms, and could as easily make them a flat 1/4" or a rebated 3/8".

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Woodwould

I was half joking. First and foremost, slips are downright ugly (as are muntins), they're synonymous with cheap work (as are muntins), they're unnecessary and they encroach on drawer space.

If a slip is done which includes a moulding of some form inside the drawer then I would agree. Where a slip is done so that it sits flush with the drawer bottom then I think it looks elegant, especially where the slip is made from contrasting wood.
If no slip is used then the best option would be to relieve that top section of the drawer sides to provide sufficient thickness at the bottom to permit grooving to insert the drawer bottom. Obviously this would result in waste.
If thicker sides are to be used without relieving, to me it is approaching an IKEA look, but I guess this is all very much a personal choice.

Regards

This is a couple of quick shots of a small drawer ( excuse dust ), Kauri sides and bottom & blackwood front, with a Dillenia slip. This to me looks better than drawer sides of increased thickness, but I would understand that not everyone will like the aesthetic.

Regards

Originally Posted by derekcohen

WW What do you consider to be a better design?

A better design functionally or aesthetically? Functionally, Basilg's wide runner is probably as good as it gets. However, I see nothing wrong with the seventeenth- and eighteenth-century designs – after all, many examples are still in un-restored daily use. Runners are easily replaced, so even restored seventeenth- and eighteenth-century chests of drawers will survive for many more centuries.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

What drawer thickness do you prefer to use?

For full size drawers, I'm happy with 5/16" or even 1/4" thick bottoms. For small table drawers, 3/16" is fine and 1/8" was plenty for the small drawers in my recent shelves.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

And if you do use 3/8" (or less) thicknesses, how do you attach the drawer sides?

I dovetail the drawer sides on. The drawer bottoms are nailed into rebates in the drawer sides and then the runners are glued to the underside of the bottoms/sides.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Lastly, why do you think that thin-sided-and-slipped drawers have a long and traditional reputation for elegance?

I don't. Who said thin-sided-and-slipped drawers have a long and traditional reputation for elegance? Slips are a product of the machine age and elegance was the last thing on their inventor's mind.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Surely a better concept would have been adopted long ago if they were "downright ugly ".

Why have Victoriana, the mullet, Ugg boots, safari jackets and eating with ones mouth open, persisted for so long? Poor taste abounds Derek!

Originally Posted by derekcohen

These are important questions that you have a responsibility now to answer - there are many here that will follow your advice blindly.

More fool them! I'm a hubristic relic with a very narrow field of interest in the past.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

For myself I keep an open mind.

You're the Man!

WW

Are you saying that safari jackets are bad taste?!

Thanks for your thoughts. They are appreciated.

I am surprised to hear that slips are a relic from the machine age. Time to do a little more research.

The other point is that your method of attaching the drawer bottoms does not allow for any movement (have I got that right?). I thought that this would be relevant?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

I am surprised to hear that slips are a relic from the machine age. Time to do a little more research.

With the homogenisation of furniture during the industrial revolution, drawer slips simply made it easier to construct drawers – the sides required no further work than dovetailing. The slips could be made by the yard from virtual waste and sapwood and drawer bottoms could be slipped into them with no handwork required.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

The other point is that your method of attaching the drawer bottoms does not allow for any movement (have I got that right?). I thought that this would be relevant?

In theory it can be a problem, but with well-chosen and properly seasoned material, and reasonable care, it doesn't normally present a problem. Again, I refer to the thousands of examples that have survived for three hundred years.

An interesting design detail of drawers in some old Tansu chests I have looked at recently is that the drawer bottoms are simply nailed on without any additional runners added.

No slips, no runners. Iron nails into like on like soft wood timber running full width across the drawer bottom. Seems to have lasted a long time as well.

Originally Posted by Fuzzie

An interesting design detail of drawers in some old Tansu chests I have looked at recently is that the drawer bottoms are simply nailed on without any additional runners added.

No slips, no runners. Iron nails into like on like soft wood timber running full width across the drawer bottom. Seems to have lasted a long time as well.

That was the standard method in England too until about 1695 when the first runners appeared.

With the homogenisation of furniture during the industrial revolution, drawer slips simply made it easier to construct drawers – the sides required no further work than dovetailing. The slips could be made by the yard from virtual waste and sapwood and drawer bottoms could be slipped into them with no handwork required.

Hi WW

It strikes me that the addition of slips is more work, not less. Ploughing grooves all around is a relatively easy job ... as long as you do not mind slightly thicker drawer sides, of course.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Why have Victoriana, the mullet, Ugg boots, safari jackets and eating with ones mouth open, persisted for so long? Poor taste abounds Derek!

Well, at least I got most of that correct .

WW having seen your work, and read your posts it is very clear that you know what to do & how to do it, very well indeed, and it is always interesting to hear what you have to say
However I just can't accept nailing draw bottoms on, even if they do last two or three hundred years, so I guess I will now have to see out my days tagged as a contemporary non traditionalist.

Regards

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Ian sent me a couple of his pictures (which I am sure he won't mind my posting here as they are beautifully made) ..



I am not sure what the thickness is for his drawer ...

Derek

from you that is praise indeed -- thank you

The sides are 10mm (3/8")
the slips 12mm (1/2")