Thread: First stages in drawer building.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Now now WW ... without a smiley someone may just believe that repetitive commentary of yours resembles obsessional thinking and/or compulsive behaviour ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

A smiley can't disguise the characteristic over analysis of a trick cyclist.

Hi Derek

to further confuse you, did you notice these at Watson's Brass?

available in 3½ in size (~89mm)

Originally Posted by Woodwould

A smiley can't disguise the characteristic over analysis of a trick cyclist.

And had you tried here at Goods and Chattels ?

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Now now WW ... without a smiley someone may just believe that repetitive commentary of yours resembles obsessional thinking and/or compulsive behaviour ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Woodwould

A smiley can't disguise the characteristic over analysis of a trick cyclist.

That's the stuphph!! A bit of good old thrust and parry!!

On a slight aside, has anybody heard of slivers and wedges that some hammer into the gaps in their dovetails called, 'charlies'? That's what my grandpa called them, and i was wondering if the term was familiar to others.

cheers,
B-D

Originally Posted by ian

and it's a good article

the only "problem" is that Neil is dependent upon a dedicated router bit set for both the slots and the tongues in the drawer base.
Now if you're working with hand tools ...

...then it's equally simple, just a little more time consuming. Lie Nielsen make an excellent tongue-and-groove plane that will handle that job rather well. But, if that's the case, then of course I would also expect you to dimension plane all the drawer components by hand too. With regard to some of the posts on drawer slips, I believe that I have adequately covered their advantages in my recent AWR article, and can see no disadvantages. I did, however, have a little laugh at WW's, almost angry, response about their inelegance! Well, I guess, there are also those who regard 60's, Spanish inspired, blowtorch-scorched pine furniture as aesthetically resolved.

Neil Erasmus.

Originally Posted by Woodwould

I was half joking. First and foremost, slips are downright ugly (as are muntins), they're synonymous with cheap work (as are muntins), they're unnecessary and they encroach on drawer space.

Some fine examples of turn-of-the-century, Arts and Crafts furniture featured flush slips and muntins that don't encroach into the drawer space at all. This technique has been (John Makepeace), and still is, followed by some of the best woodschools in England. If anything, they allow extra drawer space because they make thinner sides possible. I believe you are referring to slips and muntins whose top corners protrude 6 or so mm above the inside surface of the base.

Neil Erasmus

Originally Posted by neiler

I believe you are referring to slips and muntins whose top corners protrude 6 or so mm above the inside surface of the base.

Yes, I was.

Originally Posted by neiler

Some fine examples of turn-of-the-century, Arts and Crafts furniture featured flush slips and muntins that don't encroach into the drawer space at all. This technique has been (John Makepeace), and still is, followed by some of the best woodschools in England.If anything, they allow extra drawer space because they make thinner sides possible.

I'm familiar with some of Makepeace's – and his students' – work (I lived not far from Parnham House before moving to Australia and a good friend, Hamish Low, was a student there for two years).

Georgian oak drawer sides are pretty thin at between 1/4" and 3/8" thick and don't have ugly intrusive slips.

Catching up on my correspondence!

Hi Ian

Thanks for the suggestions for handles. I really like the ones withe the cut outs on the corners (Watsons Brass). The problem here is only size: they are 3 1/2" long, which is too much for the small drawers. That has been a limitation all along, finding handles that (a) look traditional, (b) have a touch of the modern (as the Military Chests are more accurately an interpretation of the vintage), and hence the use of the naval brassware, and (c) the size must not dominate.


Hi Basil

Thanks for your PM. I will respond there.


Hi Neil!

Welcome! Great to have you included in this discussion on drawer design. Having your input with a modern take on quality drawer construction will be a wonderful counterbalance to WW's 17th and 18th Century focus.

For all, I must add that Neil is a mate of mine. We chatted about drawer design at the Perth Wood Show this past weekend. Neil also had the cabinet (that featured in the latest Wood Review mag) on display. I last saw it before the drawers were added. With the drawers it is spectacular. Neil's article in the WR is excellent and a must-read for those interested in high-end drawer design. The photos struggle to convey the quality .. to aspire to ... sigh...

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by neiler

Well, I guess, there are also those who regard 60's, Spanish inspired, blowtorch-scorched pine furniture as aesthetically resolved.

Neil Erasmus.

Neil I doubt that a Blowtorch will qualify as a hand tool,
A whale oil lamp may qualify & also suit WW's period, but unfortunately would be a bit politically sensitive.

Must dash I need to clean out the saw pit

Regards

Originally Posted by ian
and it's a good article

the only "problem" is that Neil is dependent upon a dedicated router bit set for both the slots and the tongues in the drawer base.
Now if you're working with hand tools ...

Originally Posted by neiler

...then it's equally simple, just a little more time consuming. Lie Nielsen make an excellent tongue-and-groove plane that will handle that job rather well. But, if that's the case, then of course I would also expect you to dimension plane all the drawer components by hand too. With regard to some of the posts on drawer slips, I believe that I have adequately covered their advantages in my recent AWR article, and can see no disadvantages.

Neil Erasmus.

Neil
I agree with you regarding the advantagers and elegance of slips and really like the way you have implemented them in AWR.

However, in terms of using hand tools, to make drawers...
If your drawers have a solid wood base, the options are to rebate three sides of the base to fit the grooves, a fairly exacting task with hand tools -- Lie Nielsen's T&G plane will really only work for the rebate that goes into the groove on the drawer front.
I believe the more traditional approach is to chamfer the underside of the drawer bottom

Originally Posted by ian

Neil
I agree with you regarding the advantagers and elegance of slips and really like the way you have implemented them in AWR.

However, in terms of using hand tools, to make drawers...
If your drawers have a solid wood base, the options are to rebate three sides of the base to fit the grooves, a fairly exacting task with hand tools -- Lie Nielsen's T&G plane will really only work for the rebate that goes into the groove on the drawer front.
I believe the more traditional approach is to chamfer the underside of the drawer bottom

Hi Ian,

If you have a good look at the LN T&G plane, and the flush slip method I discuss in my article, you'll understand that the plane is entirely capable of creating the tongues to the ends and front edge of a solid wood base, and also the grooves that those tongues fit into. The chamfered base you show is a technique that is applied only to bases that fit directly into grooves in the sides or grooves in applied slips that protrude into the drawer space, mostly finished with a quadrant moulding, as seen in much colonial furniture - often fairly rough stuff!

cheers,

Neil Erasmus.

I'm hoping that you've had a longer play with a #48 or #49 than I have.
My impression from the very short play I had at the Sydney wood show last year or the year before, is that without nickers, cross grain tongues would be fairly rough