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Thread: Vic Ash Entertainment Unit
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11th August 2012, 07:23 PM #1... and this too shall pass away ...
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Vic Ash Entertainment Unit
This is an entertainment unit in Vic Ash made for my son-in-law and daughter in 2008. I goofed (again) and made the doors from solid timber. The centre door warped, and I needed a fix.
Many of the blokes here helped me understand the error of my ways regarding a table top made the same way, from solid timber in a diamond pattern with a border. Ian (of Sydney) encouraged me to try laminating and gave me a few pointers.
The sections of the doors with the diamond pattern are now laminated. I re-sawed the centre panels and fixed them either side of 16mm MDF. So, hopefully the problem is solved. The door colour will turn to the same honey colour as the remainder of the unit in time.
Thanks to all for the guidance, and in particular to Ian.
I have a question. How would you recommend building a door like these but where the diamond pattern covers the entire face of the door (no visible border)?Last edited by John Samuel; 11th August 2012 at 07:25 PM. Reason: can't spell
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11th August 2012 07:23 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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11th August 2012, 11:25 PM #2
John you obviously have skills to make beautiful furniture, and its good that you are learning ways to deal with wood movement. I really like this piece. It looks simple but elegant. It is a stunner.
Re your question. I would glue solid wood (end grain) to the edges of the MDF panels, then glue the diamond to the surfaces. For me I would make a torsion box for the door instead of using MDF. It is lighter and a lot more stable.
I would also make my own door/drawer handles out of wood. It is a lot classier.Visit my website at www.myFineWoodWork.com
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12th August 2012, 10:09 AM #3... and this too shall pass away ...
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Thanks Wongo
You and several others have been very helpful, and I appreciate your assistance.
A torsion box makes good sense to me (in a previous life I had a Civil background). Do you make your own grid, or buy cardboard or similar?
I imagine keeping everything flat and level during construction is mission critical.
Concerning gluing wood to the edges of the MDF and then applying the laminates over the entire panel ... If I glue end grain to the MDF panel, will I not present end grain to the screws for the hinges ... or am I misunderstanding you?
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12th August 2012, 03:00 PM #4
Yes make you own grid.
The end grain strips should be thin (say <5 mm), so you are screwing into mostly the MDF. I would insert a couple of dowels into the MDF at where the hinges are hung. The dowels give the screws some long grain to hold onto. Hope it make sense.Visit my website at www.myFineWoodWork.com
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12th August 2012, 05:23 PM #5... and this too shall pass away ...
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Ahhh ... Now I get it.
Thanks Wongo. So that's how you make porridge.
Can you enlighten me as to why you stipulate end grain, or is it an issue of aesthetics only, so end grain presents visually to the edge of the board?
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12th August 2012, 10:58 PM #6
I thought end grain would look neat together with the diamond patterns.
Visit my website at www.myFineWoodWork.com
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12th August 2012, 11:56 PM #7
Hi John
as Wongo said, the end grain would give the visual appearance of there being no long grain around the doors. The end grain strips would only need to be about 3mm thick and as Wongo said you'd use slightly longer screws and screw through the strip into the MDF.regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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13th August 2012, 12:01 AM #8
John that's a very nice unit you built for your daughter and son-in-law
please tell me it's mostly your own design so I can add praise for your design skills to that you git from Wongo for your build skill
well doneregards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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13th August 2012, 01:23 AM #9
Hi John,
Nice looking unit there
Re the ?, I'd be thinking about some good quality 19mm thick plywood, one with more plies = stable rather than less, a torsion box might end up being too thick, of course I am thinking about my standard torsion box thickness, about 34mm thick, no reason that you can't make one up at around the 19mm but the ply is quick and easy.
Might be a little more work tho with the edging, may need to add a tounge cos half or so of the edge will be end grain
Just my 2c worth
Pete
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13th August 2012, 08:42 AM #10... and this too shall pass away ...
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This forum is a gold mine of support and information.
I now have several approaches to making such doors. Eventually, I'll try them all. One simply must make at least one torsion box, just for the experience, although I suspect matters would not stop there ... and I like the idea of ply for stability too, pjt.
Wongo, I thought using end grain was a visual thing, but wanted to be sure I was missing nothing. A good idea that I will certainly use.
Ian, the design is mine. Thanks for the kind words. I intend to make a similar unit one day. The next will feature the diamond pattern across the entire face of the drawer fronts and the doors. If I get a rush of blood, might even do something similar to the sides and top, but that might be overdoing things a bit.
When I made drawer fronts with the diamond or chevron pattern in the past I made up the drawer with the four sides glued and dowelled and simply screwed the chevron patterned front (full timber) onto this carcass. In about five years I have had no problems, but the front can wriggle a bit without creating issues.
Another question ... I'm nervous about putting hinge screws into the end grain of dowels. Should I be? Could I put about 15mm of solid timber on one edge (stile) of the MDF (to take screws) and then laminate over that; or is that re-introducing movement issues?Last edited by John Samuel; 13th August 2012 at 08:44 AM. Reason: Can't spell
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13th August 2012, 12:16 PM #11Another question ... I'm nervous about putting hinge screws into the end grain of dowels. Should I be?
Visit my website at www.myFineWoodWork.com
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14th August 2012, 01:01 AM #12
Further to Wongo's reply, with the doewels you orient them so it's long grain you are screwing into, heres a few pics of a jig I made were I had to use dowels to screw into as the endgrain of the pine didn't hold...
Attachment 219302Attachment 219303Attachment 219304
Also a few pics of a torsion box
cleaning.JPGAttachment 219306Attachment 219307
Pete
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14th August 2012, 08:54 AM #13... and this too shall pass away ...
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Thanks Wongo and pjt
I am awake now. Thanks for the slap to the side of the head ... I needed that.
I am keen to take another crack at laminating. A few years ago I saw an antique cabinet that was veneered in many smallish squares of wood, all showing end grain. It was spectacular, but my guess is that most of the beauty was in the design (as is nearly always the case). I am probably going to laminate the doors of a cabinet I'll make soon for She Who Must Be Obeyed, and am thinking about the design, including end grain laminates.
I was thinking about getting a saw-miller to cut the smallest possible veneers off the end of a log, sanding them to design thickness and then laminating them to a substrate. Might just do a test run and see what it looks like. Are there any special considerations for laminating end grain?
Thanks, fellas ...
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14th August 2012, 10:18 AM #14
Your welcome.
I was thinking about getting a saw-miller to cut the smallest possible veneers off the end of a log, sanding them to design thickness and then laminating them to a substrate. Might just do a test run and see what it looks like. Are there any special considerations for laminating end grain?Visit my website at www.myFineWoodWork.com
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14th August 2012, 04:48 PM #15... and this too shall pass away ...
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Thanks Wongo
I guessed that the veneers would be pretty thick to start with, and was prepared to do the necessary work to reduce the thickness.
For the Vic Ash doors I decided not to wait until I got a re-saw blade (picked it up today). I cut off the borders, cut the panel in half and re-sawed these panels first over the table saw, leaving only about 15-20mm for the band saw. The panels were a tad wide, so I took off the upper blade guide, increased the tension a bit, and the saw went through the last 15-20mm very easily.
I sanded them flat, to about 6mm before gluing them on the substrate, and then sanded them again to about 1.5mm veneers.
However, were I doing something like that again, I would consider veneering a long panel so I could (if necessary) run it through the thicknesser ... very carefully ... and with very sharp knives. Does that sound like a workable approach?
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