Thread: Windows in NGR

It'll be a bloody pane, Mick.
Interesting job, though, it'll keep you off the streets for a day or too.

Interested to see how this comes together Mick.
How will the windows be finished?

I'm delivering the windows and frames raw, unfinished. The builder (mate of mine) is installing and the owners are applying the finish (possibly sikkens). They wanted me to supply and fit, including all the hardware. I wanted to keep it as simple as possible so am supplying only. I was tied up doing my BAS statement all of Monday and on other business yesterday but will head down to the workshop shortly to get stuck into it again.

Mick

Hi Mick, big job you've got there. What reasons did you decide to do it yourself rather than a joinery?

Cheers
Michael

Originally Posted by mic-d

Hi Mick, big job you've got there. What reasons did you decide to do it yourself rather than a joinery?

Cheers
Michael

Well I am a carpenter/joiner by trade . Basically my plan was always to make enough money in carpentry work to set myself up in a cabinetmaking/joinery shop. I've amassed a fair amount of equipment although I'd like to get some more and upgrade some of what I have. For the last five years or so I've made most of my income from making kitchens. I have a few builders who are interested in getting me to do custom joinery work for them but what's holding me back at the moment is lack of space. I have enough gear in the shed to do kitchen cabinets (although I often need to stack them 3 high once assembled) but there's not really enough room to set up and use the other machinery. I have a 6m shipping container that's packed with excess machinery and timber. I hope to add another 100m2 to the shed which will make it possible to take on a wider range of work.

Mick

After I sorted out the router and finished moulding the profile I took the bit out and changed its configuration in order to cut the coping profile. I've got a sliding table on my router table which makes this a quick, easy and safe operation. I still needed to place a scrap of stock behind the piece being profiled to prevent grain tear out. The first two pics show this operation and the result.

The next step was to cut all the mortices. Before I could do this however, I had to get the machine out of the shipping container it lives in - about .5m off the ground and about 15m from the shed. This entailed two scaffolding planks, a trolley, and a lot of sweating and straining over the space of an hour. Got the machine out and fitted the brand new solid carbide spiral upcut bit. I also used some strapping to hold a length of dust extractor hose in place to remove the bulk of the chips.

Once I got the width and depth of the mortice and the position of the piece on the table set it only took about 45 seconds per mortice, including time taken to load each piece and clamp it in place and then remove and stack it. I did get this down to about 30 seconds per piece after a while. I did have to stop at one stage and partially dismantle the machine as some play was evident in the slides. There's brass bolts which take this up but most of them aren't accessible without some dissasembly.

I then dressed some stock to 50mm thick (the width of the mortices) and ripped it into 14mm strips. These were then dressed down to 1/2" (diameter of the morticing bit) and rounded over with a 1/4" bit. Then it was just a matter of docking them into 90mm lengths and beginning the assembly process.

This was relatively straight forward. Apply glue to mortice (AV 270, a cross linking PVA) and insert tenon, using a deadblow hammer to snug them in. Apply glue to corresponding mortice and surrounding profile and attach rail to stile. Repeat for other end. Apply glue to mortices in remaining stile plus mating surfaces and attach stile to rails. Fit cramps and snug together, using dead blow mallet to persuade, if neccessary. Wipe off excess glue (incuding whatever spattered onto surrounding machinery or jobs) and check sash for square by measuring diagonals. If neccessary tap (or belt) frame with deadblow to get square. Eye ball across the sash to check that there's no wind (twist) and put aside till the next day.

Mick

I opted to buy the sills as it's beyond a router to make up the neccesary profile. I cut the sills and heads to the required lengths, cutting them as sets as the heads are the same length as the sills. I then needed to cut a profile on the ends of the rails. Usually the sills are rebated to take the jambs as the rebate provides a fixing for the jambs. This does compromise the water resistance of the assembly though, with water being able to travel into the house through this rebate. I could have set up my radial arm saw with a dado blade to cut this rebate but I opted to profile the bottom ends of the jambs to fit around the profile of the sill. I cut a neat template out of a scrap of mdf and used it to mark out the profile on the end of each jamb.

I used a bandsaw to make the two vertical cuts, one drop saw to cut the angled section and another to make the horizontal cuts. Horizontal and vertical here referring to the orientation of the jambs when fitted in-situ to the sills. I loaded all the pieces of jamb, head and sill and delivered them on site (about 15 mins drive) and there was much rejoicing because the builder and owners were very happy with the look, fit and finish of it all. I've got all the sashes glued up now (last three done Friday AM) and have measured them up and ordered all the glass. Next week I will give all the sashes a quick sand and fill any minor imperfections, plus I'll pre-cut all the glazing beads and the stops.

Mick

looks fine Mick.

We have a Tenoner at work permantly setup with a maching moulder, so we can have full length tenons. Old style haunches etc. But I'm quite fond of floating tenons too.

in case your interested.....this is how we make our typical sills and jams. probably already know.

sills.......
1. run a kerf cut on the saw (so we don't tearout on the jointer later)
2. Got a ruff sled knocked to gether for the thicknesser. Has a stop that engages the bed, and an applied piece on the underside so it sits on an angle. run them all through ontop of that taking the cut up to the kerf.
3. And then once that angles got we make a one pass rebate cut on the jointer. Heavy cut.
4. then the drip grooves done on the leading edge with a regular router, with the sill in a vise....and a rear slots cut on the saw. Usually with a wider blade.

Jams.....
1. after the rebates cut in them we dock to length. Complete cut off the best end, then flip onto the panel saw stop to cut a kerf (usually using a piece of scrap to stop tearout)

2. And then its wheeled over to the drop saw station, where I set up a jig off the fence. Its just a steel stop that sticks out from the fence and engages that kerf...so I can dock the matching sill angle spot on.

Thanks for that Jake, I had thought of running the sill myself using the panel saw and the jointer but all the sills I've ever used had a flat, horizontal section which was at the top of the spayed section but rebated below the bit at the back. A flat "land" for the bottom of the sash. I guess you could cut the bottoms of the sashes with an angle to match the sill to avaid an unsightly gap. I don't think I'd make my own sills unless it was a really large job. I can get the NGR for a really good price when I buy it in packs but there wouldn't be enough call for the 150 x 75 I'd make the sills out of. At this stage it's cheaper for me to just get them made up. Will file away your methods for future reference though.

Mick

How are you doing with the dust off it?

I have some that I have been turning, the dry stuff is a bit peppery on the nose.

No real problems using the jointer, thicknesser, morticer or router table as the dust control is pretty good. The table saw doesn't have an overhead guard or dust pick up so consequently throws a bit of dust up. I spent a few hours on the saw one day and had a bit of hay fever that night. That'll teach me for being too slack to put on the dust helmet (or get around to building an overhead guard with dust collection)

Mick

Keep the photos coming Mick, all good reference information on how it should be done (rather than hit and miss like my normal furniture making )

Looks like they'll last a few hundred!

Looks good.
timber is very light in colour for NGR, or is it the photots?

Cliff - Wear a mask!