Thread: ER Collet Chuck Spindle Nose Blanks.

Name calling? I see. When here's the deal Peter, I have no interest in a tit-for-tat exchange here. You think I'd an "idiot" well fill your boots mate as I can assure you I won't lose any sleep with your opinion. Indeed I'd suggest you get on the back of the queue if you'd like to start calling me names! Like I said, I call it the way I see it. Yes somebody has made a fool of themselves Peter. Make no mistake I take no bizarre pleasure in raising these concerns, but judging by the number of emails and PMs in the short time this has been up, I can assure you that I am not the only one to notice that you seem to have your hand out a heck of a lot of the time!!! Clearly I'm not the only one to consider that's not in the spirit of the board, your opinion clearly differs.

I have no idea what you're saying with your contradictory statements about sources. As you well know, Hercus has virtually no remaining parts for these machines. Furthermore let me assure you I have "assumed" nothing, and I believe have missed (sadly) little. I never said that you made the gear for that member, you said at the time you'd "managed to track one down", the cost would be xx "plus your expenses" (which evidently includes a component for labour). Why not simply tell the guy where he could get it as all the rest of us here manage to do? You are further mistaken, the fact you put it on a public board then makes it everyone else's business ... including, whether you like it or not, ME!

As far as my ability to read books, yes I do hold that skill. You should try it some time, maybe then you could answer your own question as to why you wouldn't use a tough and relatively hard steel on fixture that will be taken on and off a threaded lathe spindle!

Again, while you seem to consider name calling the way forward, I wish your business the best.

Regards,
The Idiot.

Pipeclay, About the 4140 (high tensile steel) , it's barely free cutting . It's horrible to screwcut. The finished is the dogs breakfast and you need extra horsepower to remove the metal, holding tolerances is harder. It has it's place in industry where machine shops are using multi-horsepower mills and lathes , CNC equipment with constant surface speed capabilities with flood coolant and negative rake insert tooling to get the desired finish. Compare that with a Hercus lathe that most people here have access to. I've machined a fair deal of 4140 and my preference is 1214 (or 12L14 if you can get it) mild steel. For this application the 1214 is better. 4140 isn't overly suited to screw cutting ( especially with standard equipped Hercus lathes) as it produces a raged edge on the thread crests. Fine threading is possible but course deep threads are an ordeal with tool dig-in inevitable with probable tool breakage unless you use the compound set over method (good luck). CNC screw cutting is the better way to go with this material since the turning centres are equipped with threading algorithms designed to handle it. i.e. Emulated compound setover, constant volume infeed and spring passes. This leads me to the question as to how you're doing your collet chuck blanks if you don't mind the intrusive questions? Are you machining them yourself ?if so are you using a manual lathe or a CNC lathe? I don't think I'm brave enough to entertain making umpteen largish items such as this on a manual lathe in 4140. I don't like the blue hot chips 4140 produces nor the miles of tough sharp ribbons of razor wire it yields (without a chip breaker). I don't think many of us use flood coolant either. Now if you're to offer a 100% completed item in 4140 for either ER25 or ER32 collets and fits either a 9" Hercus or 260 I'd be interested ( I have both). I suggest a free cutting mild steel would be better suited for a partially machined item. It can be case hardened with a flame (4140 is more involved). The tapered bore finished will be easier to achieve as too the screw cutting.

Precisely, 1214 is exactly what I would suggest for this application, it has all of the properties suggested above as "advantages" with 4140 however is FAR easier for somebody to finish with HSS on this type of lathe. More the point is the fact that it won't wear the lathe spindle, and is much less likely to cause damage if (when) the two impact as it's being screwed on and off ... that would never happen of course

Unfortunately as far as buying a fully machined chuck/adaptor, it really needs to be machined on the lathe it's going to be used on to be fully accurate. Which raises the question that if somebody has the ability to do the most critical machining like this to finish, they probably have the ability to do the whole thing from scratch. But as I said earlier, this is Peter's business model and not mine.

Well, at least that's what my "books" say, but as I said above, what would I know. Apparently an open mind as to what I may or may know suddenly knows that I only read books. My shop must be bugged!

Signed,
The Idiot

I am machining them on a manual lathe,Hercus and a Chinese machine.

I dont have any real problem with using the 4140.

The main reason I was tempted to only supply them with the Internal thread and register and let the End user finish the Collet end was for concentricity on their machine.

These could be made in any material.

I was a one stage considering inserting a Cast Iron internal threaded bush into the end.

If I finally get around to having a finished item I could supply them with a Nut to suit ,which would be out sourced,but would add to the final cost.

Its one of those things where there are different sizes for use and to have a reasonable fast supply to cover all ER sizes I would need to have a few of each sitting on the shelf,another reason why I would preffer to supply a semi finished item.

I also thought that some people who may be interested would allready have a M/T collet chuck of there preffered size and they would interchange the nut.

Dear Idiot,
This is not name calling its is my opinion and what I believe and have believed for a long time.

Originally Posted by pipeclay

Dear Idiot,
This is not name calling its is my opinion and what I believe and have believed for a long time.

tHanc yoo Peter,eye wil giv yor upineeon thee uppropreeate connsiderrashion.

Pipeclay provided the 64/90 compound gear & the other 8 gears to complete the set for $325

Bruce, as a matter of interest, why did you decide to have the gears custom made and not simply buy them off the shelf?

Pete

Originally Posted by Pete F

Unfortunately as far as buying a fully machined chuck/adaptor, it really needs to be machined on the lathe it's going to be used on to be fully accurate. Which raises the question that if somebody has the ability to do the most critical machining like this to finish, they probably have the ability to do the whole thing from scratch. But as I said earlier, this is Peter's business model and not mine.

All valid , last time I looked my 260 had ground spindle not a cut thread. My 9" spindle nose likewise doesn't have a mark on it, now I'm curious about other lathes with soft spindles.
Cast iron is also a viable alternative , easier by far to machine but very dirty.Continuous cast is readily available in useful sizes. 75mm dia x 75mm length would be a good start. I have the 4140 , 12L14 and Cast Iron stock so would more than likely do the whole thing from scratch but I wouldn't use the 4140. I am sure others would find a pre-made blank useful though.

Originally Posted by Swarfmaker1

All valid , last time I looked my 260 had ground spindle not a cut thread. My 9" spindle nose likewise doesn't have a mark on it, now I'm curious about other lathes with soft spindles.
Cast iron is also a viable alternative , easier by far to machine but very dirty.Continuous cast is readily available in useful sizes. 75mm dia x 75mm length would be a good start. I have the 4140 , 12L14 and Cast Iron stock so would more than likely do the whole thing from scratch but I wouldn't use the 4140. I am sure others would find a pre-made blank useful though.

Yes CI is messy stuff, but agree an alternative. I would just be a little concerned that the taper may be a bit too easily damaged when inserting the hardened collets. In THEORY it shouldn't be, but in practice ... ergh, if there were some sharp edges, I just wonder ... maybe just overly cautious. I think plain old 1020 would be as good as anything, but given that the OP said he was using 4140 for specific reasons that he listed, 1020 wouldn't satisfy those reasons hence why I feel 1214 is your man.

Pete

Originally Posted by Pete F

tHanc yoo Peter,eye wil giv yor upineeon thee uppropreeate connsiderrashion.



Bruce, as a matter of interest, why did you decide to have the gears custom made and not simply buy them off the shelf?

Pete

I tried to get the gears off the shelf but none were available, anywhere. Not in the USA or Aust.... No where!
When I tried Hercus, as previously mentioned, they were going to cost $680 with a delivery time of 10 weeks.
I needed the gears to do a metric screwcutting job,on hand, so contacted Pipeclay who provided them next day delivery at $325 ......Perfect.
So I went with Pipeclay.
regards
Bruce
ABRATOOL

PM sent Bruce.

Keep it nice please. Go the idea without playing the man.

Originally Posted by Abratool

I tried to get the gears off the shelf but none were available, anywhere. Not in the USA or Aust.... No where!
When I tried Hercus, as previously mentioned, they were going to cost $680 with a delivery time of 10 weeks.
I needed the gears to do a metric screwcutting job,on hand, so contacted Pipeclay who provided them next day delivery at $325 ......Perfect.
So I went with Pipeclay.
regards
Bruce
ABRATOOL

There is also Threadco Gears Peter Sarsfield & Co Pty Ltd. I've used them before.

Just thinking a free machining steel might be more suitable then 1020, which would be a bitch to internal thread due to it's stickyness..

Yes CI is messy stuff, but agree an alternative. I would just be a little concerned that the taper may be a bit too easily damaged when inserting the hardened collets. In THEORY it shouldn't be, but in practice ... ergh, if there were some sharp edges, I just wonder ... maybe just overly cautious.

Also as one site on making one of these adaptors commented, cutting the fine thread for the collet closer nut is all but impossible in cast iron.

The collet closer nut requires the thread to be in some grade of steel.

--
Regards,
David