Thread: new hercus 9 what is it worth

It would be worth $4,000. It would cost $20,000.

Jordan

HI Mal,

That's a hard question. I'm thinking upwards of $2000.00 but without the accessories it would be hard to justify buying it against the dreaded Chinese imports. If you could maintain the Hercus cult following you might be right.

Ben.

Originally Posted by bwal74

HI Mal,

That's a hard question. I'm thinking upwards of $2000.00 but without the accessories it would be hard to justify buying it against the dreaded Chinese imports. If you could maintain the Hercus cult following you might be right.

Ben.

Ben,
Just for arguements sake lets assume all the accessories that you can think of would be available, the bare lathe is just the baseline number. When you ordered from Hercus originally you would have chosen which you wanted with your machine.
Mal

Originally Posted by nadroj

It would be worth $4,000. It would cost $20,000.

Jordan

Jordan,
Hercus only charged $9000 to the general public for the "G" at it's height( I got an invoice with a machine once). You get a lot of inflated figures because the education system paid a lot more.
Mal

Originally Posted by allterrain50

Jordan,
Hercus only charged $9000 to the general public for the "G" at it's height( I got an invoice with a machine once). You get a lot of inflated figures because the education system paid a lot more.
Mal

Time marches on, and we couldn't expect it to be as low as that nowadays, especially as a maker would have to start from scratch with new tooling.
Lucky for us there still seem to be a fair supply of used examples in good nick at affordable prices.

Jordan

Hi Mal,

When you say basic machine do mean one with a Norton Style gearbox and non geared head? For $4000 to $5000 in todays money I'd like something similar to my Hercus ATM with at least thread indicator, fixed steady and face plate.

Everything else would be optional, ie extended cross slide, QCTP, Milling attachment etc.

Don't forget $9000 back then was a lot of money. So's $5000 today. I'd love to support Australian industry.

Ben

When you say basic Hercus, that would probably mean it wouldn't even have the features of an AL-50ga for $1000

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L157

Sure it would be better built and better quality than the Chinese lathe, but the average punter who buys a cheap lathe and doesn't know much about them wants lots of accessories and features for as little $$$ as possible.

Might be banging your head against a wall.

Would probably say something with the features of the AL-50ga and the quality of a Hercus you would need to get $3000 for it.

Just my 2 cents worth.

What would it be worth?

Well a current similar equivalent would be the Seig C6.... So $1500?

Would it be better quality? I doubt it... Why?

Well my Hercus that was made in the last few years of production has bog standard non precision spindle bearings, and the cross slide dovetails are milled, not ground... Things like the gibs are not tapered but just a parallel strip held in my many grub screws..

The Hercus is a good lathe for it's size... Perfectly adequate for a lot of jobs I do, and I use mine quite a lot, mostly on just basic non precision stuff although it is capable of more then I do on mine but I have a much bigger lathe I use for the precision work.. One advantage the Hercus does have over new import lathes is the saddle has a lathe amount of bearing on the bed... it is pretty massive for the size of the machine...

But I sure would not pay $10 000 for a locally made Hercus type lathe... For that sort of $$$ I would be looking at a taiwanese machine, or even something CNC...

Now what would I pay for a compulathe???? I would like one of them...

Originally Posted by Auskart

When you say basic Hercus, that would probably mean it wouldn't even have the features of an AL-50ga for $1000

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L157

Sure it would be better built and better quality than the Chinese lathe, but the average punter who buys a cheap lathe and doesn't know much about them wants lots of accessories and features for as little $$$ as possible.

Might be banging your head against a wall.

Would probably say something with the features of the AL-50ga and the quality of a Hercus you would need to get $3000 for it.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Hi Shane,
I've been banging my head against a brick wall since starting the AMH website, "situation normal". I am retired now from my "day job", hopefully I live long enough to see it finished.
Mal (the idealist)

Originally Posted by .RC.

What would it be worth?

Well a current similar equivalent would be the Seig C6.... So $1500?

Would it be better quality? I doubt it... Why?

Well my Hercus that was made in the last few years of production has bog standard non precision spindle bearings, and the cross slide dovetails are milled, not ground... Things like the gibs are not tapered but just a parallel strip held in my many grub screws..

The Hercus is a good lathe for it's size... Perfectly adequate for a lot of jobs I do, and I use mine quite a lot, mostly on just basic non precision stuff although it is capable of more then I do on mine but I have a much bigger lathe I use for the precision work.. One advantage the Hercus does have over new import lathes is the saddle has a lathe amount of bearing on the bed... it is pretty massive for the size of the machine...

But I sure would not pay $10 000 for a locally made Hercus type lathe... For that sort of $$$ I would be looking at a taiwanese machine, or even something CNC...

Now what would I pay for a compulathe???? I would like one of them...

RC,
I am interested in what level of accuracy are we talking about here. If a machine can turn within 0.0005" over 12", would that be sufficient. I guess what I'm saying is what spec does it have to have to pass your particular requirements for say $3500.
Mal

Originally Posted by allterrain50

A question I would like to hear everyone give an opinion on is this, if a 100% Australian made lathe of the same quality and style as the Hercus 9 was available today, what would you think it was worth. We are talking about the basic machine without accessories.
Mal

Mal, I think you could sell maybe one a week, if you keep the basic price below AU$ 3.5K. Or say below $5k, with all the accessories that nowadays come with a similar size Chinese lathe. It would cost you at least 2 to 3 times as much to manufacture such lathe, though. Chris

Originally Posted by cba_melbourne

Mal, I think you could sell maybe one a week, if you keep the basic price below AU$ 3.5K. Or say below $5k, with all the accessories that nowadays come with a similar size Chinese lathe. It would cost you at least 2 to 3 times as much to manufacture such lathe, though. Chris

Hi Chris,
The final costing is miles off yet but most of the smaller parts are doable, it's the bed and apron I have the most trouble getting a decent quote on If I want to keep it 100% Aussie made. The headstock, gearbox and tailstock all look OK. Anyway it's an interesting project even if it goes nowhere.
I have some ideas myself but can you think of anything that could be improved on a new model, I take for granted a larger bore and locking mechanism for the spindle during processes like chuck removal to save damaging the headstock gears and a t-slotted crosslide as standard like the Boxford.
Mal

Originally Posted by allterrain50

.......................I have some ideas myself but can you think of anything that could be improved on a new model, I take for granted a larger bore and locking mechanism for the spindle during processes like chuck removal to save damaging the headstock gears and a t-slotted crosslide as standard like the Boxford.
Mal

Mal, yes camlock is a must, and at least 25mm spindle bore. It should be belt drive to keep cost down, and to be quiet enough to run inside a home, and to provide the potential for high surface finishes. It should use roller bearings. A T-slotted cross slide is for milling in the lathe; but then to be really usable the saddle must be prevented from lifting off the ways at the front; and a handwheel at the right of the leadscrew. The A model apron is great and proven, it should be retained as is. Lathe should be able to cut both metric and imperial threads as standard. Slightly more tailstock stroke would be great but not a must. Backgear could be omitted if it was fitted with variable drive.

Personally, I do not think it must be 100% made in Australia. It would be perfectly acceptable if the bed was made elsewhere, provided it is made to the same standard a Hercus was made to. Also I see no need for a hardened bedways, soft ways will likely outlast most hobby users. A great plus would be, if it could be made available as a ready to assemble kit - a great part of the final cost is the time required for alignments during assembly. Maybe the necessary tools like the test bars and a precision level could be made available for loan at a reasonable cost for kit buyers?

Chris

Originally Posted by cba_melbourne

Mal, yes camlock is a must, and at least 25mm spindle bore. It should be belt drive to keep cost down, and to be quiet enough to run inside a home, and to provide the potential for high surface finishes. It should use roller bearings. A T-slotted cross slide is for milling in the lathe; but then to be really usable the saddle must be prevented from lifting off the ways at the front; and a handwheel at the right of the leadscrew. The A model apron is great and proven, it should be retained as is. Lathe should be able to cut both metric and imperial threads as standard. Slightly more tailstock stroke would be great but not a must. Backgear could be omitted if it was fitted with variable drive.

Personally, I do not think it must be 100% made in Australia. It would be perfectly acceptable if the bed was made elsewhere, provided it is made to the same standard a Hercus was made to. Also I see no need for a hardened bedways, soft ways will likely outlast most hobby users. A great plus would be, if it could be made available as a ready to assemble kit - a great part of the final cost is the time required for alignments during assembly. Maybe the necessary tools like the test bars and a precision level could be made available for loan at a reasonable cost for kit buyers?

Chris

Chris,
I agree the variable speed drive as standard would be the correct option . Bore size should I think be nearer to 40mm as the headstock as it will need to be redesigned anyway, without the backgear and bullgear this should be OK. I would hope to keep the same bed way profile and maybe take the centre height up to match the 260. This will save me having to redesign my existing foundry patterns.
The reason I want it made here is basically to have some control over the quality. Hardened beds will stay on the table until prices forces it off. The whole idea is to produce the best machine possible for the available budjet. After some of the crazy things I've seen people do to a Hercus, I think in house assembly would be safer, I can just imagine the comebacks when they stuff something(i.e. it was broke when I got it).
Mal