Thread: Hercus Model 0

Hello MG,

It's a good feeling when you fix something that was knackered. Handy when you have a lathe and press to help you.

There are often desirable machine tools offered for sale on Ebay but unfortunately for me, most of them are "pick up only" from Eastern States sellers. Whilst the cost of transport would be hefty, the spectre of damage during collection and transit is what puts me off. Also, purchasing an item based solely on a couple of photos has worked reasonably well for the odds and ends I've picked up so far, but an expensive machine is something that really needs to physically inspected and that's where it grinds to a holt.

Reading about how you had to dismantle your mill to move it reminds me of my moving saga. I received a phone call from Fiora Machinery, Hercus agents amongst other things, informing me that they had a mill for sale and did I want it. I asked my wife if she minded another lump of cast iron appearing in my shed. Her response was "get it if you want but I'm not helping you move it! " Her comment was based on a previous experience where I enlisted her assistance to move my long bed 9 inch lathe into the shed. Just when it started to rain she said it was too heavy! Nice.

It took me roughly three and a half stressful hours hauling the thing on planks and bits of pipe uphill and through a sandy building site in the back yard before I had it inside the shed. The biggest fear was the mill toppling over. The building site has become a building and the sand, brickpaving. Just ready for another acquisition!!

It's all good fun.
Regards Bob.

Hello Bob,
I was actually in Fiji when I committed to buying the mill. I took a punt, the price was right and when I asked a colleague where the dealer was, he replied it was where his bandsaw was. He inspected the mill for me and organised for it to be held till I got back from the tropics. I still owe him a beer. Remember, always go to the tropics when the weather is perfect and you will have a perfect time. Swim from one end of the pool to the bar, have a drink, swim back to the palm tree, back to the bar, this time underwater etc etc. The knee is now in position and the safety switch in the door is more than likely tonights job. It was the only wire cut in the disassembly. I have the exact replacement cable ready to go in. FYI, the mill came 1500kms by road to get to my place and when the semi arrived, 26 hrs after the money cleared, the driver just arrived and wanted to know if my daughter could get it off the truck, I wasn't in town and it was very funny at the time. The phone call, "dad, there is a really big truck with this box the size of the shed, and the driver, he like expects me to get it off the truck for him".............Apart from some additional creasing in the tray by strapping, it was extremely well packed and screwed down to a pallet. I will have a crack later today to load a photo, yes it is fun.
regards
MG

wow thats a rare find! i heard they were only sold to the government. we had one at school but i never used it, did it come with its vertical head? looking on www.lathe.co.uk they dont have much info i emailed tony and told im about the miller and hercus shaper at the school, im sure he would be happy to talk to you about it. nice find it will look really nice in the workshop

Patrick

Hello Patrick, Nev, Bob,
Yes it is a rare find and it did take a lot of finding. I started looking for a Bridgeport about two years ago, missed a good one and kept looking but with more options once I found Tony Griffiths excellent website. I sent him an email also and given I have taken the pictures of mine OK, hope to add a bit of detail to his website. Not sure if it will be like the FJ where everyone owned or knew someone who owned a Holden at the time but there must be a staggering number of apprentices who learned basic machining skills on the Hercus mill at a trade school. I learnt on a Deckel FP-1 and for the big work on a Huron. We had a small Hardinge toolroom lathe, a massive Blom grinder and a cranky little Repco surface grinder. I was spoiled for choice

I am glad as the size of the Hercus suits the work I am planning to do. Last weekend I fitted and test adjusted all the slides and cross travel handwheel is going on tonight. That leaves long travel and the motor. The long travel was extremely bent and even though it dials up close to perfect after a lot of work, it will take a good deal of fiddling to get a perfect fit. It is a lot of fun and tests dormant trade skills.

The vertical head is complete and assembled but all of the fasteners are loose. The lip seals seem as though they are busting out but they do not look damaged or swollen. Hey Bob, any info on the vertical head seals welcome.

Regards
MG

Gents,
Hopefully this time it will work and a photo of the mill as purchased will be attached somewhere,
regards
MG

Hello MG,

Your mill looks good. At least it's not painted royal blue with a 6 inch brush.

The vertical head on my machine runs hot, hot to the point that you can't touch the spindle if it's been run non stop for fifteen minutes at 500 rpm.

I dismantled the head when I acquired the machine and replaced the original lipped oil seals which I assumed were the cause of the heating. The new nitrile seals generated the same level of heat. I tried the seals minus the garter springs but there was no noticable heat reduction.

There is no significant heat present when the seals are removed. .

I have discussed this issue with Steve Durden at Hercus and he can recall that the machine he used during his apprenticeship ran hot. I imagine that bearings can cope with reasonably high running temperatures but it would be nice to arrive at a solution to the friction problem that also retains oil. I had a brief look on the net earlier and there might be the possibility of using a teflon seal. Here is one site I Iooked at http://www.epm.com/metal_ptfe.htm.

I need to pursue this but I am keen to hear from both you and Nev when you run your vertical heads.

And MG, I'd love to hear about your experience with the FP1.

Regards
Bob.

Originally Posted by mgtoolmaker

I started looking for a Bridgeport about two years ago, missed a good one and kept looking but with more options once I found Tony Griffiths excellent website.
MG

big difference between that Hercus and a Bridge port........... man after seeing the CNC's a bridge port just looks crap.......... there is no hope for me i will just have to make my own CNC bridge mill and lathe

what plans for restoration are you thinking of for the miller?

Patrick

You are right Patrick, there is a big size and specification difference between a Hercus and a Bridgeport. Plans, initially to get it clean and running, then a good set of tooling and essentials. A power feed and improvements to the micrometer dials will probably be the first major changes. Given I still have to work for some cash, this may take a few months but the restoration I have done so far is fun and has been quick. I worked as a CNC programmer many years back on Makino and Okuma mills and lathes, mostly with Fanuc controls. You can make a lot of 3D precision swarf very quickly on a CNC. I have limited access to a Bridgeport for the bigger work that will not fit on the Hercus. I miss the quill feed on the Bridgeport head, maybe a good project for a Hercus sized one.
Attached is a photo of the replacement handwheel extension and another of the mill, cleaned up and ready for the knee.
regards
mg.

looking sweet i will be watching intently at this thread

Patrick

Hercus mill persons,
I did a trial fit of the long travel screw last night and was pleased the straightening has worked so well. From approx 1/2" runout it is now lurking around .010" TIR. The thing that has me stumped is the amount of float it is exactly one revolution or 5mm in the case of my machine. The diameter that goes through the end cap on the table terminates in a shoulder against which the inner headed bush of the micrometer dial goes. There is either no clearance clockwise turns or exactly 5mm anti clockwise turns when fully assembled. I can only think there must be a missing bronze washer behind the endcap, so concealed from view, that sits between the pinned boss on the lead screw and the back of the cast end cap. Do you have a washer lurking underneath on yours?? There was none when I pulled mine to bits but this is the most likely fix for the problem. I am also going to machine the diameter with the two keyways down by .006-.010" so as the boss fits better and the final runout is controlled. Any comments appreciated ??
regards
MG

Hello MG,

On my machine there is nothing between the pinned collar or boss and the table end cap. Bear in mind that my mill has the serial number OL- 8 so anything could have changed over the years. Yesterday, I motivated myself to install a phosphor bronze bush in the table end cap to remove the .007 "radial play that had been bothering me. I have 8 thou backlash in the feed screw and nut.

Wear on the thrust faces of the screw i.e. the collar and end cap will contribute to the backlash but in your case it does sound like something is missing. In the parts list for the mill there is listed a "bush for the table screw 10L0317" along with a "collar table traverse screw10L0314". There are no illustrations accompanying the parts list which makes identification tricky. Making a bronze thrust washer to fit between the pinned collar and cap makes a lot of sense and should resolve the problem.

Regards Bob.

Hello Bob,
Short story, I machined the thrust washer up and made it +.005 to bed in / lapp out when it was assembled, couldn't get the final size right after I had machined it. The step length varied when I put the end cap on incorrectly and after using some brute to get it to turn. Looked closer, the collar had actually sheared the pin out so the impact must have been a beauty, I could see the small crest of the remaining rivet in the shaft, just peeping from under the collar. Collar now removed. 4mm pin will be reamed to 3/16" and a silver steel replacement riveted in. Then the fiddle with float at the end cap. But this way I am fixing the actual problem, not putting in something that may move under load. Will keep you up to date, wife's comment, glad you are having fun and have got one in good order, would hate to see one that was a mess.......
MG

Hello Hercus mill owners,
Just received my motor back from the rewinders, it is now star and delta with 6 wires coming into the terminal box. The VSD will fit on a treat now and convert 240V single phase input to 240V 3phase output for the motor. Given I do not alter the speed setting too much i should not lose any torque. It cost $70 to do the mod in suburban Melbourne. Will probably go for a powerflex 4M drive, have to work out the model number for it now and save up of course.....
regards
mg

Fellow Hercus mill "O"wners,
Mr Rudd has just bought me the Powerflex PF40 Variable Speed Drive that I needed for my Hercus milling machine. Now my mill will work on single phase and I feel so stimulated because of this
mgtoolmaker