Thread: Lathe identification

From what I can see from these pictures indicates that the lathe appears to have some Hercus features,mainly around the drive area.

If by chance it is an original Hercus it is very different to all that I have seen for a 50's lathe.

Just a quick look shows Flat Bed,Carriage controls are reveresed,Gap Bed,the Compound has bolt on strips to secure the Tee nut,the mounting for the Rear leadscrew bearing support as well as the way the Leadscrew is retained,and the Guarding for the Headstock pulley.

If you could show a view or views of the Change gears,Banjo and associated parts might be good,even if you could give some dimensions of the gears.

Thanks for the quick reply Pipeclay!
Yeah, I agree, it's a Hercus-style, but it's not ~quite~ right, so I'm a bit stumped so far.
For a 50's date, I'm only guessing... it may be later and unfortunately it (re:I) may be pretty inaccurate. I'll pick Dad's brain later today and see if he can remember when it was originally bought. Probably not something that would stick in his memory, but you never know

For the gears...
Here's all the missing pieces from the previous photo's. Two spindles, that would hold the gear train, a bronze bush that the internal diameter fits to nothing, 9 gears and (I'm guessing) an engaging dog, broken off with the other part missing.
The gear tooth sizes are: 25, 2 off 30, 45,50,52,55,60,63. All gears are stamped tooth number and all are the same style, except 1 of the 30 tooth gear (no stamp and no hub). It may be a ring-in and doesn't belong.

By the banjo, I presume you mean the adjusting arm for meshing the gears? I've never heard that term before. If so, it's in the photo of behind the head stock.

Thanks for the help

I probably wont be much help to you.

The piece that appears to be broken may or may not be part of the train,does the centre piece move backward and foreward inside the cast body?

The middle photo is what I reffer to as the banjo,the change gears would attach to this and the other arm which is at 90 degrees to it.

Do the 2 spare studs have the same diameter?

Are they the same diameter as the other stud attached to the Banjo bracket?

Does the Bronze bush fit onto the Leadscrew extending through the Banjo bracket?

Do any of the Gears that you have fit onto the Leadscrew shaft?

Are the (2) 30 tooth gears different to all the rest?

Hi Pipeclay...
First off, I'll try to answer the questions

I probably wont be much help to you.....
On the contrary, I appreciate your input!

The piece that appears to be broken.....
Yes, the center piece moves and I've since found out (by removing a guard) that it IS a lock dog and mounts just in front of the head stock bearing and engages into a gear to lock the spindle in place. For what reason, I have no idea! The only part missing is a corner of the casting that holds a locating pin in place.

Do the 2 spare studs have the same diameter?.....
The two studs seem to have about the same diameter on one end, but different on the mounting end (with a pair of flats and a thread to attach to something). I didn't actually measure it, my vernier is at work at the moment.

Are they the same diameter as the other stud attached to the Banjo bracket?.....
Looks to be a different diameter on the banjo stud

Does the Bronze bush fit onto the Leadscrew.....
It doesn't seem to fit anywhere, that's why I think it might be a ring-in and it's just something that's found its way into the pile of bits.

Do any of the Gears that you have fit onto the Leadscrew shaft?.....
From memory, and I didn't try it today, they all fit onto the lead-screw. That's part of my puzzle. Why should they ALL fit onto that shaft, but no other shaft that is there??

Are the (2) 30 tooth gears different to all the rest?.....
One of the gears seem to be the same style as all the others; ie: cast iron with a hub. The other seems to be machined because it's smooth all round (not a typical casting) and has no hub or number stamped in it. Maybe another ring-in?

As a further observation, I'm beginning to think this may be a Mars lathe. As stated earlier, I removed a guard and clearly saw the shape of the headstock casting, very much the shape of the attached photo. Second clue is that all the small Mars machines that I've seen on WWW (precious few!!) have had the auto-feed/lead screw positions swapped to what I would consider 'normal'. I could still be wrong (phew! That'd be unusual! ) but so far, it looks to me it might be the case.
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I will figure out the gear arrangement from the WWW. Maybe I'll sit down one day with a pencil and bit of paper and do some maths for the lead screw travel versus the chuck turns ratio.
Ughhh... Maths.... not a pretty sight when I'm involved in it!

Hmmmm... I wonder if Mars were a knock-off of Hercus?

Thanks for all your help Pipeclay, I'm still looking so I'd still appreciate any suggestions that might be a clue

Looking at your photos it appears that the 2 spare studs would fit into the elongated banjo bracket.

They could possably be longer lengths to compensate for spacers,(change the stud rather than use a spacer).

If all the gears fit onto the leadscrew shaft you would require bushes to allow the gears to become idlers on the other shafts.

Are all the gears keyed,is the leadscrew shaft keyed.

The taped hole in the rear of the headstock might of been used in the setup of the gear train,do any of the spare studs fit in there.

If you ask your father about the lathe try and find out if the lathe was able to feed in both directions,if so there would need to be a set of gears either the same size or different running to a keyed gear then running to 1 or 2 idlers that would then engage the leadscrew gear.

I agree with Pipeclay,

some features are Hercus like, but it's my guess it's not a Hercus. I'm no Hercus expert, and don't know what Hercus were up to right at the start, but I feel they started off with licenced patterns from South Bend in the States.

Hercus copied all the South Bend features, and went on to improve on them, ie, taper roller head stock, lever action locking on the tail stock, and then the 260.

At one stage, South Bend imported some of our 9" lathes, and some 260's.

Hang around, someone will recognize it. I know it's not a Mars lathe, built in Brisbane, as one of my mates has one.

Looks like you have a bit of work in front of you, but have a go, you may finish up with something unique. Restoration is most rewarding, although Pipeclay will probably say, "just bloody well use it".

Ken

Thankyou Ken I interpret that to be an understanding rather than agreement.

G'day all
I appreciate all your help, because it's bugging me!
You're right Ken, just use it is good advice... and use it I do! It's one of those tools that for the most part just sits there; but when it's needed, it gets a good, hard workout (same with my little Emco unimat. It's another one that definately earns it keep in the W/S)

Anyway, spoke to Dad and he reckons that the lathe got to the company at about the same time he did. He was employed in about 1955 and he said it came from another plant they had at the time, so I figure that would put it from about 1945 to 1955...
Then he dropped a bombshell! "Hmmm... I think I might have the manual on that somewhere..." he says. "Wha???, Huh???" says me...
He's going to have a search for it and let me know and that'd be sensational!

I'll keep you posted (and if he does have some, it'll make a great scan for some archives!)

More to come, so I better be off

Nice lathe you there Malibu, have you tried contacting Tony at Lathe?

It doesn't look to familiar to me but i would suggest it is older 1920's to 1940's

Oh your pictures show you have back gears fitted to the headstock but you say you only use 3 speeds? The back gears reduce the speed and increase the torque so you should be able to get 3 extra slow speeds. To use the back gears you undo a screw usually on the large bull wheel, It disconnects the pulley from the spindle and then you bring the set of gears at the back into mesh to make a new slower, more powerful spindle drive. The main pulley has a set screw somewhere along it used to lubricate the bushing under it, if it seizes thats a big problem.

I hope I didn't just rant on about something you already know but 3 speeds sounds rather limiting lol it really looks like a fun machine i hope you get the gear train up and working

Please Patrick, keep ranting... that's all news to me!
I've seen the gear set behind the headstock, but it made no sense to me.. (hey, I'm just an electrician)
Ok, the bull gear is the one behind the chuck? If so, it has a pin in one quadrant; I can turn it, but not pull it out. If I engage the gears at the back, they will eventually lock into the spindle gears and completely lock the spindle. There's a grub-screw under the small diameter spindle pulley that is marked 'Oil', which I presume is just an oiler point.

I zipped an e-mail to Tony with a few pictures, but as yet, no response. An interesting observation I've found when trolling lathe pictures... my autofeed engage handle looks identical to the Portass Mk5 on his page. While I don't think it's a Portass, it shore don't help my confusion!

Anyway, working on the change gears today to get my head around those, I've decided that the bit that's missing is the handle to engage forward/reverse gears. I think that's where the 2 off 30 tooth gears are supposed to go. I rigged a ply handle to figure some dimensions and I'm slowly trying to nut things out. Arrrrgh! and I also tried to figure gears to go after that. Revs! Teeth! Ratios! All for the remaining 7 gears and possible combinations! My head was swimming, so I (temporarily) gave up and made some hot-cross buns instead

The saga ain't over yet...
John

malibu have a peep at these are there any similarities maybe some hercus parts used to make it work Page Title

Gday Tanii
I checked out the link and found it pretty interesting. I've see the Qualos brand before but didn't realise they were made in Melbourne!
It's amazing the things that we USED to make local, but have now forgotten 'how to do things'.
I'm not sure any of the bits will fix my machine, but noticed that the controls on the apron are very similar. I'm still bumbling my way around to find out a bit more, but I think I'm about ready to give up (temporarily) again and just use it the way it is at the moment.
Anyway, I better fly, visitors have just rolled up!

Sorry Malibu I nearly forgot about your thread lol ill explain a bit more on the back gears...

Back gearing is a very simple way lathes gained high torque at slow speeds otherwise you could simply run out of power on large jobs or heavy cuts. The back gears work by the pulley sitting on the spindle and it drives it by that little screw in the bull gear, I think it has to be taken out before use but if it screws back and doesn't foul anything thats probably fine. Between the spindle and the pulley is a bronze bush that gets oiled by that hole you found in the pulley, If it is not oiled correctly for use (i suspect not) then they sort of seize up and the only way to fix it is to dismantle the spindle which may not be a bad idea in your case. Just a few more things, the 2 back gears behind the spindle need oiling to it should be a oil nipple or a set screw (if not done the bush will probably seize to) To recap when in use the pulley will run at its normal speeds but run the gear train to the back of the headstock to drive the spindle by the bull gear at about a 1/4 the speed i think.

I think somewhere on the net there is a gearing calculator where you can type in the pitch of your leadscrew and the pitch you want to cut and it will calculate the gearing needed ill try looking for it to help you