Thread: I asked for advice

Are you sure this shouldn't be posted in the joke section where a lot of their advice belongs? I once had to explain to the guy in the tools section what a forstner bit was .

Anyhow, I have had success with both. Titebond III would be easier to use but, many a boat builder can't be wrong, epoxy will give you the best bond.

Actually, her advice was not as bad as you make it sound. Solvent based construction adhesive is used very extensively in the building industry for gluing anything to just about anything else. It is water proof, flexible, gap filling, and easy to use. We turn our noses up at it but it's actually quite a good product. I have no doubt that two bits of timber glued together with it, no matter how badly fitting the joint, would last a long time. My house is literally riding on it

Where she probably went wrong was in not recognising that a woodworker was not going to be very receptive to a recommendation for that particular product because of it's negative connotations in our community. For a builder or home handyman it is a no-brainer.

When making things for outdoors, I tend to avoid designs that require glue at all, but where they do, I understand that Titebond III is the best of your woodworking glues if your joints are good. Use epoxy (West System is one of the best) with filler if they are not.

Originally Posted by metester

Are you sure this shouldn't be posted in the joke section where a lot of their advice belongs? I once had to explain to the guy in the tools section what a forstner bit was .

Anyhow, I have had success with both. Titebond III would be easier to use but, many a boat builder can't be wrong, epoxy will give you the best bond.

Yeah,I must admit I wanted to buy a couple of Dowel Bits at the same time and had to explain the difference to the woman who served me,not that I'm picking because of being a woman,but if they don't know what they sell,why do they put them in a section.

Sometimes I think we're better off just wandering aimlessly until we find what we want

Originally Posted by silentC

Actually, her advice was not as bad as you make it sound. Solvent based construction adhesive is used very extensively in the building industry for gluing anything to just about anything else. It is water proof, flexible, gap filling, and easy to use. We turn our noses up at it but it's actually quite a good product. I have no doubt that two bits of timber glued together with it, no matter how badly fitting the joint, would last a long time. My house is literally riding on it

Where she probably went wrong was in not recognising that a woodworker was not going to be very receptive to a recommendation for that particular product because of it's negative connotations in our community. For a builder or home handyman it is a no-brainer.

When making things for outdoors, I tend to avoid designs that require glue at all, but where they do, I understand that Titebond III is the best of your woodworking glues if your joints are good. Use epoxy (West System is one of the best) with filler if they are not.

I have used it before,but have always just seen it as a quick fix or a lazy alternative ,sorry if I offend based on what you said about your place,but I tend to avoid using Nails and Screws as much as possible,I prefer to Dowel most joints but that's just me I suppose a little more fiddling but a far better joint.

As for using Liquid Nails on this table?I intend to Tongue and Groove 90% of the joins,so when I clamp them together,I don't know if Liquid Nails would spread as easily as another glue does,so I think I'll just use Titebond.Thanks for the help though

but have always just seen it as a quick fix or a lazy alternative

That's exactly what I'm talking about. There is a perception in the woodworking community that construction glue is sub-standard when in fact it is very strong and a good choice for many applications. It is what it is. But woodworkers prefer to use woodworking glues.

Don't worry, you haven't offended me. There's not a huge amount of construction glue in my house but there is some and it has been used according to manufacturer's recommendations, so I'm comfortable with that. My floor joists are glued together with polyurethane glue, so I'm hoping that is nice and strong too.

I'm not suggesting you should use it on your table, as you can see from my last paragraph. In fact it defeats the purpose of a T&G joint to glue it at all. They are meant to allow for movement. If you glue it, you might as well butt join it.

What I was actually addressing was the notion that the Bunnings person is a "Richard Cranium" for suggesting it. It's actually not that stupid an idea, just not something that a woodworker wants to hear. One shouldn't expect fine woodworking advice from a Bunnings paint counter attendant.

Originally Posted by silentC

Actually, her advice was not as bad as you make it sound. Solvent based construction adhesive is used very extensively in the building industry for gluing anything to just about anything else. It is water proof, flexible, gap filling, and easy to use. We turn our noses up at it but it's actually quite a good product. I have no doubt that two bits of timber glued together with it, no matter how badly fitting the joint, would last a long time.

Dunno about the long lasting bit Silent - over time that stuff turns to a dark brown crispy stuff with about the same consistency and strength of the inside of a Violet Crumble Bar - and that's in the dark confines of a wall - Lord knows what a dose of UV will do to it, but my money's on a very short life span.....good for a "Backyard Blitz" type fix up though I suppose


Demented - if you go to that particular store with anything but a plan to buy a specific item having already done your research and received advice elsewhere you are making a serious mistake - you simply won't get the "best price" as well as the best advice as a job lot - yeah I know some will quote exceptions(I've experienced it once or twice as well) but as a general rule that's the way to approach this mob.

Ian

Yes I suppose Liquid Nails is a bad product to rate. They reckon 20 years.

Fullers and Sikaflex make some good stuff though.

Anyhow your second paragraph sums up my feelings on the subject.

What the hell did you ask for advice in a hardware store for?

Whether what she said was right or wrong, I doubt she knew what Titebond glue was.

I agree with what silent said. Building outdoor furniture is different from building fine furniture. I try not to use glue whenever possible, I use screws (yes screws but never screw into endgrain), paint and traditional joinery skills.


My next project is also a table for my new deck. What do you have in mind?

Originally Posted by Demented

Sometimes I think we're better off just wandering aimlessly until we find what we want

Works for me in that particular store.

Originally Posted by silentC

That's exactly what I'm talking about. There is a perception in the woodworking community that construction glue is sub-standard when in fact it is very strong and a good choice for many applications. It is what it is. But woodworkers prefer to use woodworking glues.

Don't worry, you haven't offended me. There's not a huge amount of construction glue in my house but there is some and it has been used according to manufacturer's recommendations, so I'm comfortable with that. My floor joists are glued together with polyurethane glue, so I'm hoping that is nice and strong too.

I'm not suggesting you should use it on your table, as you can see from my last paragraph. In fact it defeats the purpose of a T&G joint to glue it at all. They are meant to allow for movement. If you glue it, you might as well butt join it.

What I was actually addressing was the notion that the Bunnings person is a "Richard Cranium" for suggesting it. It's actually not that stupid an idea, just not something that a woodworker wants to hear. One shouldn't expect fine woodworking advice from a Bunnings paint counter attendant.

What you say about Butt Joining did occur to me and I've also thought about blind nailing it together also.
As for the Paint counter? now I think about it,we don't ask a Chemist what a good cut of steak is for a BBQ do we.

Originally Posted by Ian Smith

Dunno about the long lasting bit Silent - over time that stuff turns to a dark brown crispy stuff with about the same consistency and strength of the inside of a Violet Crumble Bar - and that's in the dark confines of a wall - Lord knows what a dose of UV will do to it, but my money's on a very short life span.....good for a "Backyard Blitz" type fix up though I suppose


Demented - if you go to that particular store with anything but a plan to buy a specific item having already done your research and received advice elsewhere you are making a serious mistake - you simply won't get the "best price" as well as the best advice as a job lot - yeah I know some will quote exceptions(I've experienced it once or twice as well) but as a general rule that's the way to approach this mob.

Ian

Ian I have to admit there's a little Hardware store not far from me that's been there for years.Yeah they charge a bit more,but when I consider how far it is to the other place the price works out about the same anyway,and they do know their stuff also.
Bayliss Hardware in Rooty Hill,or Seduction Heights as we who live in the area prfer to call it

Originally Posted by Wongo

What the hell did you ask for advice in a hardware store for?

Whether what she said was right or wrong, I doubt she knew what Titebond glue was.

I agree with what silent said. Building outdoor furniture is different from building fine furniture. I try not to use glue whenever possible, I use screws (yes screws but never screw into endgrain), paint and traditional joinery skills.


My next project is also a table for my new deck. What do you have in mind?

I'm thinking a combination of Cyprus Pine down the center but having Jarrah as the surround maybe 10cm wide.I really don't know if this will work but I do feel the colour combination will work well together,once it's all sanded down and three or four coats of urethane applied.

Watcha Reckon??

What you say about Butt Joining did occur to me and I've also thought about blind nailing it together also.

I reckon you're on the right track with the T&G if you want a solid top. But without the glue so that it can come and go.

However the design I like for outdoor tables consists of a frame with bridle or M&T joints at the corners and slats to make up the middle. The slats have full width tenons which house into a groove on the inside face of the end rails. You can secure them with a pin from the underneath and they have a 3 or 4mm gap between each slat so that they can move and also to allow water to disperse rather than pooling on top. You can have a mullion across the centre of the table so that the slats only need to be half the length and it gives some rigidity to the top. The mullion is M&T'd into the side rails of the frame. You can glue the M&T joints because they are well protected, or just pin or draw bore them.

Originally Posted by Demented

I'm thinking a combination of Cyprus Pine down the center but having Jarrah as the surround maybe 10cm wide.I really don't know if this will work but I do feel the colour combination will work well together,once it's all sanded down and three or four coats of urethane applied.

Watcha Reckon??

Just bear in mind that wood movement is a big issue (like 10000 bigger than wood at indoor)

For me, I will go to the recycled centre to get some 4x2 oregon. Wood will be held together by morises, tennons, pins, wedges and screws.