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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    NSW
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    133

    Default Glue help on Cypress pine

    Have a bit of a problem, I glued up about 13 mortise and tenon joints on a slat rail using cypress pine and Shelleys interior PVA glue.

    I have never had a problem before with this glue and have always found it to be strong but have also never worked with cypress pine. The problem I now have is that the glue has not worked very well and all of the joints have been able to make their way loose with a little bit of help (I glued it up about two weeks ago so it should well and truly be set)

    So my questions now are

    1. Can I use PVA on cypress pine or do I need to use another type of glue?
    2. Since the joints now have a layer of dried glue on them will I need to clean them back up or will re gluing them work?

    I think my plan now is to use an epoxy resin.... yes or no?

    I am very disheartened that the joints failed after the time I spent setting them up.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    back in Alberta for a while
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    68
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    Default

    thinking back on the glue up --

    how long did it take you to assemble all the joints?

    how hot was it at the time?

    could it be that because of time and temperature, the glue skinned over before all the joints were assembled and clamped?
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  4. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    BELL POST HILL, 3215
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    2,332

    Default The Pine ??.

    Hi grantoboy,
    My thinking is you are using " The Oily Murray Pine " & not the ordinary Crypress, that has no oil in it.
    Maybe this is why it will not stick.

    NSW is a big place, so where are you.
    Regards,
    issatree.
    Have Lathe, Wood Travel.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    133

    Default

    Thanks for the replies. Glue up was pretty quick with the glue still being wet. Also the tempeture I don't recall but I do have a refrigerated air conditioner that I have on so if it was hot outside I would have the a/c on.

    I'm located in Narrabri a few hours either side of the Qld border and Tamworth.

    While the wood does not feel oily I have read that cyress normally is.

    Now if this is the case I am in a bit of trouble as I have done 2x panel glue ups in the same fashion and also 4x long rabbit joints, plus there is another piece the exact same made as the one that didn't hold. (Trying to make a baby cot for my unborn)

    So if the wood is too oily what is my best bet to glue it up?

    I have worked with oily woods before (my bench is made from iron bark) and boy is it oily, but it appears to still be holding and I used the same glue on it.

    Thanks agajn.

    Grant

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    blue mountains
    Posts
    4,882

    Default

    If you clean both surfaces to be glued with acetone that removes any oil. White sprit as a second choice. Even epoxy wont stick to an oily surface. I usually wipe with acetone any time I have any suspicion about the wood being oily. Another tip for glue ups is fresh cut joints take glue better than wood that has sat around for a while. Shelf life of glue is another factor. You will now have to clean the old glue off the M&Ts so epoxy may now be the better choice as it will fill any gaps left from scrapeing the old glue off.
    Regards
    John

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    133

    Default

    Thanks for the replies guys. Upon closer inspection of the failed joints it appears either the glue is off or the oil from the wood mixed with it and made it fail.

    The glue is not hard and is soft almost like squeeze out gets after a few hours. So either the glue is off or the oil mixed with it.

    I cleaned the joints, wiped them down with acetone and used a long setting epoxy to glue them up. Now the long wait to see if it worked. 8 hrs for setup time then 3 days for full cure time.

    Fingers are crossed.

    I'm in Sydney next week so might drop by carbatec and get some titebond 3.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Toowoomba, Queensland
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Actually, cypress timber contains a substance called cypresscine, and all you need to do is prepare the wood as per normal and wipe the glue face down with metholated spirits. Once the metho has dried (a minute or two), you can glue away.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seneilsen View Post
    Actually, cypress timber contains a substance called cypresscine, and all you need to do is prepare the wood as per normal and wipe the glue face down with metholated spirits. Once the metho has dried (a minute or two), you can glue away.
    The repair job held up. My son is now in a big boy bed and the cot is in storage.

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    geelong
    Posts
    359

    Default

    Only done this once - so might have been lucky - was on a small display unit (all joints slightly rebated -1.1/2 mm or so and fairly firm) with no other support (no pins/screws or even a back)made from decking board offcuts remilled to kill the corner round-over and have had no issues. (though this is a low stress item - ony supports a resin teddy collection) In any case I used a cross link PVA as i do with most things. The cross link is a different beast to your cheap nasty PVA but I might have been lucky? Oil content might still be an issue? Don't know but polyurethane might be better?

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wood spirit View Post
    Only done this once - so might have been lucky - was on a small display unit (all joints slightly rebated -1.1/2 mm or so and fairly firm) with no other support (no pins/screws or even a back)made from decking board offcuts remilled to kill the corner round-over and have had no issues. (though this is a low stress item - ony supports a resin teddy collection) In any case I used a cross link PVA as i do with most things. The cross link is a different beast to your cheap nasty PVA but I might have been lucky? Oil content might still be an issue? Don't know but polyurethane might be better?
    Poly would be to messy but thanks for the late reply.

    The method to dry the joints worked well and the build has stayed together since the re-glue a few years back.

    Is now in storage for a future use

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