Thanks: 0
Likes: 0
Picture(s) thanks: 0
Results 1 to 9 of 9
Thread: Hide Glue Open Time
-
8th October 2021, 07:50 PM #1New Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2021
- Location
- Melbourne
- Posts
- 8
Hide Glue Open Time
So I decided to venture into the world of hide glue, mainly to do some chair restoration because I suspect some of these older chairs might give out and I want reversibility. I'm familiar with the process having seen instrument makers do it before, but never done it myself.
I got a pack from Restorer's Choice and did some test runs. Gram weight 160-220, so not too high.
I can't seem to get the open time beyond 60 seconds.
I've watched all the youtube videos. Since this is a new experience, I'm fastidious with weights and temperature. I soaked the granules in 1 part glue to 2 part water by weight. I bring the glue to exactly 62-65 degrees C (142-145 F). I tried adding another part water (final ratio 1:3) to begin with. The open time is something close to 30 seconds. It was slightly cold that day ~15C/60F. So I try again, fresh batch, with ambient temperature ~20C/70F. This time, I begin with the same initial soak ratio of 1:2. I then gradually add more water to achieve a final heated ratio of 1:4, 1:5, 1:6 and 1:8. Even at 1:8 I'm getting an open time of at most, 60-80 seconds, depending on how thick I lay it on. Granted, at 1:4 it's roughly the consistency of maple syrup. But at 1:8 it's almost like a diluted water based paint. I also presume that glue strength will suffer at such low dilutions?
45-60 seconds is sufficient for a small simple join. It's probably not possible to do a chair with 3-4 joins that I need to brush glue on, align, push in, mallet and clamp. I'll need 3-4 minutes at best.
Am I missing something?
The other consideration is, and assuming my understanding is correct, since hide glue is water soluble and its entire reversibility revolves around the presence of heat and water. I noticed while playing around with the glue that a gelled portion of glue will easily be softened and stick to a fresh part of glue. So in theory, I could brush on most of the glue and do a final quick "wetting layer" and wack the pieces together quickly after that. Or alternatively I could just put it together and re-heat the joins with a hair dryer once they're together to get it to re-liquify. But these don't appear to be a standard process from videos and descriptions.
-
8th October 2021 07:50 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
- Join Date
- Always
- Location
- Advertising world
- Posts
- Many
-
8th October 2021, 09:08 PM #2SENIOR MEMBER
- Join Date
- Mar 2018
- Location
- Sydney
- Posts
- 469
I found this post on fine woodworking that may help
Hot Hide Glue and Long Assembly Time - FineWoodworking
Can i ask, what do you use a glue pot? Looking to try hide glue myself soonish
-
8th October 2021, 09:27 PM #3GOLD MEMBER
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- Location
- Helensburgh
- Posts
- 7,696
Chris Parks pressed on the wrong button and does not need pictures.
CHRIS
-
8th October 2021, 11:16 PM #4New Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2021
- Location
- Melbourne
- Posts
- 8
Thanks for the link. The only difference I can figure with the pure hot glue is that I didn’t soak it overnight. Urea sounds like it will work but I also wonder how they manage to use it without additives?
With the pot I just use a cheap wax pot. One of those for waxing hairs on your legs. Except my legs are already beautiful so I don’t need it I fill it with 10mm of water and put the glue in a small glass jar inside so it’s a double boiler and I keep the wax pot clean. But make sure to test the temp of the glue itself. Mine is 10-15C cooler than the water.
-
8th October 2021, 11:56 PM #5New Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2021
- Location
- Melbourne
- Posts
- 8
Another thing. I’ve seen a violin/cello get assembled where the belly needs to be glued to the sides. It’s done in one step. There’s absolutely no way a single person could do that in a minute with a glue that lasts a minute. And this all happened hundreds of years ago in northern Italy where I presume heating was primitive. There’s gotta be something I’m missing.
-
9th October 2021, 01:28 AM #6China
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Location
- South Australia
- Posts
- 4,475
Whenever I have used hide glue I heat and hold it at about 80deg
-
9th October 2021, 09:17 AM #7
I've used hide glue quite a few times, no need to get technical.
Mix it, check it, add water or more glue if needed, after 45 60 min if OK heat it.
I use a rice cooker with only Cook and Warm settings.
Just keep an eye on it and test stir with a icypole stick - which can also be used to apply.
When it transforms into hot glue use it.
I also use Restorers Choice, never a problem.
Check out the Aussie guy on Woodworking Masterclass on youtube.
He doesn't get technical.
I followed his tips when I started out; never had a problem.
Good luck.
-
9th October 2021, 10:32 AM #8New Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2021
- Location
- Melbourne
- Posts
- 8
-
9th October 2021, 04:24 PM #9
I've never actually timed it; bit I usually do hide glue in small batches; up to 4 max, with everything ready to go.
Then my assembly space is chockers.
You can keep it warm; if I wanted to keep it for quite some time I would leave it in the rice cooker on warm and position it close to the assembly area.
I did a test mitre joint to start and no one can break it by hand, so my system works for me.
BTW: I use plastic bags between my joints and assembly table; they can still be easily removed for up to 4 hours.
You'll know when - the squeeze out is firm but not hard.
The joint can be carefully moved if it is in clamps.
Similar Threads
-
Quick setting/Short open time PVA Glue
By tomartomau in forum GLUEReplies: 5Last Post: 18th July 2019, 01:48 PM -
Hide glue pot
By taz01 in forum HAND TOOLS - UNPOWEREDReplies: 20Last Post: 10th May 2019, 12:37 PM -
Hide Glue / Urn
By Just George in forum GLUEReplies: 6Last Post: 31st May 2006, 04:41 AM -
Hide glue pot
By Iain in forum GLUEReplies: 4Last Post: 1st December 2004, 07:53 AM -
Glue with long open time
By Ian Runge in forum GLUEReplies: 6Last Post: 30th March 2004, 12:44 PM