Thread: Hide glue and urea

I'm a little intrigued Mic, where did you get the urea from?

I guess from a bag of furtiliser......local produce.

I recon you need to use it hot...isn't that how you use hide glue?

cheers

Originally Posted by soundman

I guess from a bag of furtiliser......local produce.

Reason I ask is that urea is the main constituent of urine. It's used to assist in nitrogen excretion and I haven't heard it being used in hide glue. Which is why I'm intrigued.

Originally Posted by sjt

I'm a little intrigued Mic, where did you get the urea from?

Me too, please! Cheers crowie

From what I understand urea is a usefull chemical in may things.

The stuff you buy as granulated product from the produce is pretty pure, clean, clear and white.

As stale urine it has been used for centuries in dying, tanning and cleaning things.

It is used as a wetting agent in some dying and leather treatment processes.

It often intensifies colour...try working with tomato plants, then handle some furtiliser with urea in it.....when you wash ya hands with soap the foam will be bright yellow and more than usual from the soap.

I know it is used in some other glues...Urea formaldahyde is the first one to come to mind......but I am interested as to the effects in hide glue.

cheers

I bought a small box from the hardware. I ask whether hot or cold because I suspect that commercial liquid hide glue is used straight from the bottle cold, but I don't have any to read a label. It slows the gel time of hide glue down to the point that it stays liquid at room temperature if you add enough and cures by drying.

Originally Posted by mic-d

I bought a small box from the hardware. I ask whether hot or cold because I suspect that commercial liquid hide glue is used straight from the bottle cold, but I don't have any to read a label. It slows the gel time of hide glue down to the point that it stays liquid at room temperature if you add enough and cures by drying.

So I guess you could just warm it till its at a user friendly consistancy. Suck and see....... So to speak. ..... How about stuck and see?

So you have traditional hide glue....as in powder, lumps, pellets or sheets, you have prepared that in the usual manner....soaking in water then heating...and you have added the urea to manipulate the gell time.

I always wondered what they do to hide glue to keep it liquid at room temperature.

So you recon it is simply adding urea....hmmm

So how much urea did you add to how much glue?

I supose you will have to do some tests.

Come on Mic you are a "man of science"

Regardless as to it being liquid at room temperature or not, I think it may penetrate better and go off faster if it is used hot.

I knew a sceenery builder who claimed he warmed ordinary PVA because it flowed better and went off faster...never tried it myself.

cheers

Originally Posted by tea lady

So I guess you could just warm it till its at a user friendly consistancy. Suck and see....... So to speak. ..... How about stuck and see?

Yup, that's what I did, the test is still together despite my best efforts and tomorrow I'll know how today went.

Wouldwood is the expert with the use of urea in hide glue as in much else.
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by jimbur

Wouldwood is the expert with the use of urea in hide glue as in much else.
Cheers,
Jim

Yes I was waiting to hear what he would recommend

I use animal (hide and/or bone) glue daily and top the pot up with glue/water/urea as required, so my glue pot is seldom free of urea. The only time I make a fresh pot of pure glue is when veneering a largish job like a carcase. By the time I get round to veneering the drawers, there could be anywhere between trace amounts to 30% urea in the pot. It's all good; after a while you learn to read the glue and how best to adjust it for the task at hand. I always use the glue hot because it flows better and offers more open time.

Commercial liquid animal glue still benefits from being heated. You can make your own LHG by adjusting the quantities of urea/salt in it. That's all that's in Titebond (Franklin's) LHG and Edwards' Old brown Glue.

Thanks WW.