Thread: What is the longest lasting glue?

I want to carve some large murals so I'll need to laminate boards and I don't want glueline problems down the track.

I'll use macrocarpra which is extremly stable so expoxy might be the go with a plasticiser, though hide glue is reversible if needs be. I could make the hide glue waterproof but don't know how that would affect possible future restoration side of things. Suppose doing a trial glueup and check out reversibility in a few months is what to do with the foul smelling crap.

On this basis, which accords with my understanding (so long as the epoxy is not exposed to UV), I would go with epoxy unless the murals are to be held in air conditioned premises, where the humidity will be so low as to prevent hide glue from resoftening.

If you need flexabilty then the urea formaldahide glue with a % of pva added could be the go. It is supposed to be somewhat heat and water resistant. And for such a big job as you are planning it would be worth you while buyng the 5 liter container it comes in..... plus hardener. (Small amounts available from Bunnings lurking on top shelf.) I was using it for my laminated handles, but ultimately found that the Techniglue epoxy was more suitable for my purpose. I wasn't doing it on such a large scale.

The AVSyntec site has lots of charts with different recepes and fillers and applications. (But I can't find it right now.)

I recently went back and had a look at a bathroom vanity top I made about 5 years ago which is made from Sydney blue gum laminated with Urea Formaldehyde. It's still in one piece and no sign of creep. I chucked out the almost full bottle of glue last year because it had turned to jelly.

Originally Posted by echnidna

ahhh a serious answer, Thankyou Switt

Oh!!
Indoor

I was thinking Gravity,
It did well for the Egyptians for a few thousand years.
But that's outdoors; and in the Desert Sun

Echidna,

If you are asking about longevity of application, well how about this:

We have in our possession a sideboard that my Grandmother purchased to celebrate the end of WW1 in 1918. The unit was not brand new then, current thinking is that it was manufactured in the very early 1900's,

All the glue joints are still holding together and they would have been animal hide glue. We also have in our possession a dining room suite that was my Mum & Dad's, bought in 1932. In the lst 12 months have re glued the chairs [that was a job and a half] but the table is still hanging in there. Once again animal hide glue.

I will give you an update on PVA's when they have been around for a 100 years or so.

Incidentally, the Mosquito bombers used in WW II were timber framed, and held together with [I think] animal hide glue, and some of those planes lasted 20 odd years, just glued together, in such an unforgiving environment before failing!

I'd go along with Colin. Only hide glue has been tested for longevity so far. The rest are new kids on the block.
Stradivarius picked the right glue didn't he?
Jim

Originally Posted by Colin Howkins

Incidentally, the Mosquito bombers used in WW II were timber framed, and held together with [I think] animal hide glue, and some of those planes lasted 20 odd years, just glued together, in such an unforgiving environment before failing!

The Mosquitoes were glued with milk casein glue, Colin, but your point is valid, it's a protein material, like hide glue. From my (limited) experience with milk paint, casein is a bit more water resistant than hide glue, but still succumbs to constant humidity, as they found out with the Mosquitoes in Burma.....

I think it's beyond doubt that protein glues get the guernsey on durability, since they are holding up well on hundreds of years old objects, & nothing else has been around that long, yet. UV does a number on plastics, so they won't tolerate light, but indoors, & used appropriately, they will probably be ok for a lifetime or two, at least. While hide glue is considered to be non-creeping, it can soften enough to allow creep under high humidity situations - such situations also encourage fungal growth, which can do a number on joints, too.

I use at least 4 different glues regularly, for different reasons, including durability - melamine or resorcinol has durability around water, so they are my choice for benchtops that get wet, but good old hide glue has the durability I want for things I hope outlast me & may need repair in a lifetime or two.

Toolin' - don't know if you have ever lived in Britain, but that's a VERY high humidity place, where hide-glue furniture has held together for a little longer than our lifetimes! Australia would be considered a medium to low humidity place, by most reckonings. Extreme humidity cycles like you get in Southern Ontario are probably the toughest test of any glue.

And BTW, I wouldn't advise using PVA glues that have sat around for more than a year or so - they may look ok, but they do deteriorate, and fail to set properly - most manufatcturers give a shelf-life of a year. Sometimes you can tell it's 'off' - it goes a bit 'ropey' - but I have had a couple of bad experiences with 18 month old glue that looked ok, too. Now I buy glue in smaller lots I know I can use up in a year or less (& mark the purchase date on each bottle/pack so I can keep track). Another point in hide glue's favour - I recently tried some old pearls that had been sitting in a shed for more than 40 years - they seemed to work just fine!

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Toolin' - don't know if you have ever lived in Britain, but that's a VERY high humidity place, where hide-glue furniture has held together for a little longer than our lifetimes! Australia would be considered a medium to low humidity place, by most reckonings. Extreme humidity cycles like you get in Southern Ontario are probably the toughest test of any glue.

Been many times. I think you're confusing rainy weather with humidity. They're not the same thing. You can have a lot of rain and still have a relatively low humidity level.

Humidity is directly related to air temperature and available water. So yes Australia as a whole has a low humidity level because it's mostly arid and semi arid land. But where 99% of the population lives the average temp and available water allow for much higher humidity levels than would be found in Britain on a consistent and sustained time frame. To prove it - take a nice cold beer in Australia and watch what happens. It will have water running off it and will get warm real fast from the gaseous water condensing on the outside. Take a cold beer in Britain and yes it will gather water on the outside, but far less than here. And it won't warm up nearly as fast.

Ontario is a really humid place but only for a couple months a year. For at least 6 months a year the humidity level is almost 0. Those wild extremes in temp and humidity are very hard on woodwork. I've seen enough eastern Canada furniture and the movement that results from such large swings - many a severely cupped board and failed glue joint.

Resorcinol, easily

Toldjaweneedaglueforum.

Originally Posted by echnidna

durability.

Bob

you can't just say durability without also mentioning the exposure conditions

inside / outside
protected from rain
subject to swings in humidity 9air conditioned environment)

etc


ian

now I'll read some more posts

inside, for a very pale timber similar to Kauri (macrocarpra)

Bob

I think you have your answer

a traditional glue fish, hide or casin — I'm not sure which will have the lighter glue line.

seeing as you're carving I'd steer away from the expoxies and the like for fear that the glue lines will show up as small irregularities in the carving strokes — is that the right term?


ian