Thread: Questions about Hide Glue

That's what I understood.

Originally Posted by BilWil

high quality gram strength labeled HG from a reputable source.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I hadn't realized there were so many different grades.

Can you suggest a reputable source?

I'd like to make a few M&T joints to practice on, and perhaps try a couple of different types of HG, to make sure I've mastered it.

I think you'll find there's probably only one or two grades commercially available in Australia and I doubt if many of the retailers know anything about gram strengths.

Neill will no doubt know and it would be worth enquiring when he returns from his trip in the US. I'm running out of my UK stocks and will have to buy some soonish.

[quote=Glennet;867938]

Can you suggest a reputable source?

Haven't needed to buy any for a long time but you could ask a violin maker/repairer.
Jim

Originally Posted by Glennet

Can you suggest a reputable source?

Originally Posted by jimbur

Haven't needed to buy any for a long time but you could ask a violin maker/repairer.
Jim

There's the Violinery (think thats what he's called) at the eastern end of Bridge St. Richmond Melb.

I suggest you look at this page for some info re: the general subject.
http://www.deller.com/newpage8.htm

Here is a source I've used to get info and directions on mix and use. They may be abel to tell you who in your area has their products.
http://www.milligan1868.com/index.html

I have found Behlen Ground Hid glue to be widely available in one pound canasters. It is 256 gram strength. The higher the gram strength number the shorter the open time and the stronger the glue.

This person mixes up hide glue that is liquid at room temp and is easy to use. You can read about it here:
http://www.wpatrickedwards.com/home.htm

Here is another source of info re: hide glue, it uses, mixing, etc. Also he suggest a source I've used and found to be good.
http://www.spurlocktools.com/id57.htm

Here is another source I've used:
http://www.oldemill.com/store/index.php/cPath/36

When all is said and done, my best source for info and glue has been:
Milligan & Higgins
Maple Avenue - P.O. Box 506
Johnstown, NY 12095 Phone: 518-762-4638
Fax: 518-762-7039.
E-Mail: [email protected]


They have the following gram strengths;
Grades Available: 80, 110, 135, 164, 192, 222, 251, 280, 315, 347, 379, 411, 444, 478, 512 Jelly Grams

I have found that the 192, without urea is a strong glue and is easy for me to use for veneer and rub blocks and places where short open time isn't an issue or short clamping time is desied. I use 251 for every thing else, mixed 7 parts glue to one part urea. That gives me plenty of open time and good strength. I have used 315 on a few instances. I mix it with urea as well. I have used it for bent wood apolications when I didn't need the water proof capabilities of plastic resin glue and didn't want the clean up mess I always have with plastic resin glue. Mixed with urea I have the open time I need and it is strong and ridgid. The 315 is very ridgid and hard, without urea it is quite brittle and very quick to gel, too fast for me when doing bent wood glue ups using 25 or so clamps.

I had a bit of a serious muck about with the stuff today. I made the glue up yesterday and re-heated it today. It had a thick skin on it which I stirred in once it heated up. The glue was slightly translucent and a bit like honey to look at. During the day, it was getting thicker, so I added some water. It is now opaque, a bit like chicken gravy.

Another thing I found was that it becomes very sticky almost immediately. The literature I've read says that once it gels it is no good. I guess I'm having trouble working out at what point you would call it gel. It becomes quite rubbery seconds after applying it, so by the time I've applied it to both edges of a 2' edge glue up, it is thick, tacky and starting to form a skin. Initially, I was having trouble getting the joints to close up tight, so I added some water and upped the heat a bit so that it was running off the brush in a thin stream. It seems to close up better now but it still seems to start to gel very quickly. The squeeze out is thick but not clumpy.

I haven't got a thermometer yet but hopefully will lay my hands on one soon. I'm wondering how I would go gluing up a dining table top with it at the moment. I think it would have gone off before I got to the other end.

It sounds like you're getting the hang of it.

If I am carrying out long board glue-ups, I don't try and beat the glue. What I do is stand the two boards on edge and brush glue on both the edges to be bonded. When that's done the glue can often be gelled at t'other end of boards, so I don't worry - there's no point trying to beat it when you can't.

I simply waft over the two glued edges with a heat gun to revitalise the glue (it goes shiny when it's wet again) and then quickly rub the two board edges together until they can barely be slid to and fro. No clamps needed.

You can immediately pick the two boards up by the top one and lean then against a couple of sticks propped against a wall while you get on with more boards or something else.

I had a go at the rubbed joint but it didn't go very well. It was when the glue was a bit too thick I think and the gap was too wide, so I stripped it and did it with clamps. Later, I tried taking one out of the clamps and laying it down flat on some newspaper. That went OK but then I tried to lay the second one on top and the joint popped open because there was a slight ridge of glue on the bottom of the board so it opened like a hinge. So I've got some sitting in clamps now and I'm not touching them until tomorrow.

I'll have another go tomorrow with some wetter hotter glue and see how it goes. I'll stand them against the wall as you suggest. I'll give the heat gun a go as well.

Silent, there's a couple pages of pictures here that may help

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luth...hideglue1.html

Wouldwood, was wondering what you think of fish glue.

http://luthierssupplies.com.au/produ...roducts_id=884

thanks.

Fish glue is strong stuff, but has always been the preserve of small article makers like instrument makers due to the price. Animal glue is more than strong enough for furniture and carpentry and costs considerably less. I haven't used liquid fish glue before.

Rabbit glue is another one I use when gilding. I used to make it from rabbit skins I snared and shot around home.

Silent, there's a couple pages of pictures here that may help

Thanks Jake. BTW I got my glue from UBeaut.

As a matter of interest Woodwould, how do you make rabbit skins into glue?