Thread: table top glue

Originally Posted by jefferson

Denn,


One thing I did note from your original message was about using metal clips to secure the top.

I wouldn't. Without checking the expansion tables, a top over 4ft wide probably will expand +- half an inch at least over a season. That puts a lot of stress on those fasteners, even with KD timber.


Jeff

These would work the same as the buttons

not trying to hijack the thread,

I've got a similar query, I want to glue down 5mm AD jarrah onto an old pine table. What glue would be ok to use, I don't want to use epoxy (fumes). Would AV260 2pk PVAc glue be ok, will it be strong enough to hold down the jarrah as the seasons change the MC%, and the thick veneer tries to buckle and warp, and will it last 20+ years. Will formaldehyde glue be significantly stronger and better?

Fatty

Originally Posted by Hobbyhorse

have just about finished a wooden clock movement in which I made my own plywood out of oak and glued the laminations with epoxy with which I have made the cogs. .

Rhys

Rhys,
apart from the obvious question (you must be a taffy?) how about some pic's of your clock movements?

To make a such a piece from wood that not only works but keeps accurate time is simply amazing.

I did once see clocks made by a man from my own area, and I still fijnd it hard to believe that these things actually work.

Denn

Originally Posted by fatty500

not trying to hijack the thread,



Fatty

Fatty, you're not hijacking the thread - just joining in the discussion.

Denn

I swear by this glue 202-GF from Garett Wade

http://www.garrettwade.com/jump.jsp?...&itemID=103111

It used to be available from /www.antongerner.com.au/ but i dont know if it still is or not.

Rgds

Ross

Fatty,

I'm no veneer expert, but I don't think that any timber 5mm thick falls into the veneer category.

If you glue down timber that thick, it's gotta move. The thin wafers they use for veneer has lost its strength and ability to move. Suggest you glue down a wide test sample, wait a week, then sit it in a steamy bathroom for a few days and see what happens. Then stick it near the heater, just to be sure.

Jeff

Originally Posted by jefferson

Fatty,

I'm no veneer expert, but I don't think that any timber 5mm thick falls into the veneer category.


Jeff

Surely that's point five?

Denn

Okay, let's see now.

What glue? Any good carpenter's glue will do:

Titebond--an aliphatic resin emulsion (Scooter's suggestion, I think). 5 minutes open time.

Titebond II- A cross-linked PVA. So please note PVA and Titebond II are the same thing. 5 minutes open time. Water-resistant.

Titebond III--Proprietary co-polymer. 10 minutes open time, an advantage for complex glue-ups but probably not necessary for a tabletop. Waterproof.

Despite some comments, all are easy to sand and clean up with water if you're quick smart with a damp rag.

Epoxy--overkill for a tabletop IMHO.

Polyurethane--you'll be sorry. It expands like a sponge and you will see the lines.

All PVA and similar glues like to creep, but careful clamping will prevent. Or use biscuits or Dominoes. I guarantee you'll still have to sand the top flush regardless.

Solid 5mm glued to solid top. A non-starter. 5mm is too thick. You can get away with it if it's plywood to plywood, for example, due to low movement. But not solid to solid.

Table buttons-- here's a link to a good thread. Lignum knows his stuff.

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f11/table-buttons-49571


A 4 X 8 foot table is a real challenge and the largest glue-up problem may be finding a flat surface to work on. No flat surface = no aligned tabletop.

Originally Posted by Honorary Bloke

Okay, let's see now.

Polyurethane--you'll be sorry. It expands like a sponge and you will see the lines.

I've been getting good results using polurethane glues in ed grain chopping boards - where you really need tight joint lines.

It works really well - but only if you "clamp often and clamp hard". ie, it needs a lot of clamping pressure. It then only foams outside the joint not within it. So easy to clean up.

Originally Posted by Honorary Bloke

Solid 5mm glued to solid top. A non-starter. 5mm is too thick. You can get away with it if it's plywood to plywood, for example, due to low movement. But not solid to solid.

Table buttons-- here's a link to a good thread. Lignum knows his stuff.

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f11/table-buttons-49571


A 4 X 8 foot table is a real challenge and the largest glue-up problem may be finding a flat surface to work on. No flat surface = no aligned tabletop.

The top is only going to be jointed tas' oak - nothing on top.


The buttton link was very interesting and although one of the final parts of the job, it gives me something to ponder on.

My nieghbour (the culprit who got me into this) will help me with glue up which I will start tommorrow - so I shall be preparing a suitable area today.

I still haven't made my mind up on the glue although there are a couple of favourites and a couple I have discounted..

Thanks to everyone again for all the help/suggestions, I shall keep you posted.

Denn

Originally Posted by jaspr

I've been getting good results using polurethane glues in ed grain chopping boards - where you really need tight joint lines.

It works really well - but only if you "clamp often and clamp hard". ie, it needs a lot of clamping pressure. It then only foams outside the joint not within it. So easy to clean up.

Valid point. But you are glueing small surface areas. I worry that an 8 X 4 table top may be more than can easily be handled. If you can do it, go for it. God knows poly is strong enough.

I read that you are/have glued up, anyway my 2c worth. 2 pack epoxy does not creep, pva etc does. It is not the miniscule amount of movement per se that is the problem it is its effect on the laquer or whatever you seal with. It does not matter how you glue up any pva etc will creep. Some timbers are worse than others. Soft woods aren't so bad as the glue is stronger usually than the strain the timber can impart. Also epoxy has gap filling capability and has a long layup time, which you can vary. Either way your table top will be good experience. Enjoy.

just one last thing, no one has mentioned titebonds liquid hide glue which according to the spec would seem to fit the bill - wha'd'ya reckon?

Denn

Hide glue will work. But no better than PVA. The benefit of hide glue has been its repairability and it is still often used in chair making for this reason. But you only reap the benefit of repairability if you use real pearl glue, not the Titebond, which is not repairable.

Neil has a section on Pearl glue in his book.