Thread: what do you think of titebond liquid hide glue ?

Good idea. I just have to find a thermometer that goes up that high.

Originally Posted by silentC

Good idea. I just have to find a thermometer that goes up that high.

Wot's wrong with yer pinky?
Youse young blokes is just soft, that's all............

I'd probably switch it off at 30 degrees using that method. Office worker hands

Professional hide glue pots keep the temperature between 140-150Farenheit. If I am not mistaken that is about 60-66Celsius. If you want to make sure you have the right temperature go to House or other kitchen supply place and buy a cheap (I paid less than $10 for mine a few years ago) termometer with a metal tip (they are used in the oven for roast). I prefer the Farenheit variety as the 10* difference is easier to see than the 6* on the Celsius variety. Then you can check at what setting of the controls you have the glue at the right temperature. Save your pinky for other tasks.

Regards
Andy

thanks.

Originally Posted by IanW

Jake - why do you want to use the liquid stuff rather than brew your own - is it for the convenience? The old double boiler is a bit of a PITA, & I recently got a wax pot too, after another HG thread about a year ago. Wish I'd done so years ago. ,

yep, the convenience. Monitoring heat and all the rest seems like just another thing to worry about. But I've never used it. from what I'm reading maybe making the stuff is not such a big deal. ?

How much cheaper do you think it would be to make it yourself over buying it ready made in the liquid form ?

I just ordered a 500 gram bag which will make 1kg of glue (would that be about a litre?) for $24.20 plus postage.

Originally Posted by silentC

I just ordered a 500 gram bag which will make 1kg of glue (would that be about a litre?) for $24.20 plus postage.

ta. from what I remember about 250ml of the titebond stuff costs $15. about two times more expensive than making yourself, sounds like.

I am not convinced about all the arguments of using hide glue for chair construction.
From my years in the shopfitting trade I have seen countless chairs that had been glued up with hide glue and then then fallen apart, repaired and then fallen apart again, the problem the client expects it to be repaired to last for ever.
My philosophy is glue it once to last indefinitely, if the leg brakes then what ever happens it is a major repair job and either a new leg will have to be made or repaired with a steel rod fitted down the middle of the leg and glued with " Epoxy"

As to gluing up Mosquito fighter bombers of WW2 vintage from what I know of the subject they did not use Hide glue but the construction was of a sandwich of a outer layers of Birch veneers and a core of balsa, this was used in the UK, the planes made in Australia where made up of a sandwich of outer layer of coachwood veneer and balsa. The adhesive that was used was Casein, ( this can be checked on the RAAF web site on Moqquito construction) an adhesive made from milk which was used extensively in the war period and in the 50ies. Casein a popular adhesive of the time was relatively water resistant and used in laying up doors, furniture panels etc.
A number of the planes as I also understand that were originaly sent out from the UK in the early stages of the war to the tropics areas did infact fall apart because of problems with adhesives, perhaps they were the ones made of hide glue.
Cheers
Mac

Originally Posted by Malcolm Eaton

I am not convinced about all the arguments of using hide glue for chair construction.

From my years in the shopfitting trade I have seen countless chairs that had been glued up with hide glue and then then fallen apart, repaired and then fallen apart again, the problem the client expects it to be repaired to last for ever.
My philosophy is glue it once to last indefinitely, if the leg brakes then what ever happens it is a major repair job and either a new leg will have to be made or repaired with a steel rod fitted down the middle of the leg and glued with " Epoxy"

I'm still a bit on the fence too Malcolm. The thought of having to repair my chairs all the time bothers me.

But those chairs your talking about that needed repair all the time. Did they have wedged joints ?


there's another question.....

When your faced with a wedged joint that needed to be disassembled, like say a leg in a seat (with hide glue), whats your process ?

One bloke I read, drills a small hole, and injected hot water into it. .....but he didn't make mention of wedges....will the wedges become easy to remove once the hot waters in there ? ......or do you have to pry it out someway.....thinking maybe drill a hole in the wedge to take a screw and then just pull the wedge out by the screw with pinces or whathaveyou. And just make a new wedge for assembly.

Malcolm, in your shopfitting experiences, I'm guessing the chairs you encountered were cheap utility chairs made for the catering trade. They were probably cheaply (poorly) designed and mass produced. I've seen loads of 19th and 20th century chairs that people have brought me. I usually tell them I'm too busy because the chairs are 'no-winners'.

Wedges are no guarantee a chair will hold together, but they are symptomatic of poor 19th and 20th century practices in an attempt to overcome poor design, choice of materials and construction.

I have 17th and 18th century chairs that have been in daily use since they were made (obvious by the amount of wear and tear to them) and have never been repaired - nor have wedges.

I have made possibly close to two hundred chairs using HG and I've never had one come back to be re-glued.

Originally Posted by Woodwould

Wedges are no guarantee a chair will hold together, but they are symptomatic of poor 19th and 20th century practices in an attempt to overcome poor design, choice of materials and construction.

I don't agree with that one woodwould. wedges are used everywhere in joinery. Just because their used that shouldn't mean its an attempt to overcome poor design etc. shorely.

I have 17th and 18th century chairs that have been in daily use since they were made (obvious by the amount of wear and tear to them) and have never been repaired - nor have wedges.

I have made possibly close to two hundred chairs using HG and I've never had one come back to be re-glued.

I think the idea of a wedge in a joint makes actual good sense. Its mechanical. If you have a tenon going through a mortise that flares with a wedge on the other end, you'd think it be stronger than one without a wedge....? can't pull a wider section through a smaller one.

I like that reassurance about 2 hundred odd chairs not coming back with hide glue though. Ta.

Originally Posted by apricotripper

I don't agree with that one woodwould. wedges are used everywhere in joinery. Just because their used that shouldn't mean its an attempt to overcome poor design etc. shorely.

Agreed, wedges are extremely effective when employed correctly, and they have their place in carpentry, but aside from Windsor chairs, wedges have no place in chair construction which is the type of furniture construction we were discussing.

I reiterate; wedges in chairs usually point toward poor design. Some exceptions might be chairs made in the Arts and Crafts and so-called 'Aesthetic' styles which employ wedges purely for visual impact.

Originally Posted by Woodwould

I reiterate; wedges in chairs usually point toward poor design. Some exceptions might be chairs made in the Arts and Crafts and so-called 'Aesthetic' styles which employ wedges purely for visual impact.

oh, you mean wedges in chairs are pointing toward poor asthetic design......

because, I'd definetly say wedges in chairs point towards excellent structural design. ie. not using them or at least pins ,is weakening your chair.

It makes more sense to me that wedges were dropped from design so as to accomidate other interests......like avoiding the look of end grain ( and its wedges) , more room for carving design and moulding. for the posh. asthetic reasons.

Many people also think wedges have an appeal also. imo

Jake

I use Ubeaut hide glue (and tit(e)bond and Techniglue and , and, and..
I haven't had a good joint glued with HG come apart yet so long as the joint was prertty close. But the same applies to the others too. Really the issue is not whethere the joint will fail - any glue can fail (esp if the joint is badly made (DAMHIK)or, as WW mentioned, if the piece is badly designed and places unreasonable strain on the joint).

But the big advantage of HG is when you need to repair the piece when the joint is still holding. The only time I have had to do that is when a really talented removalist managed to remove a long chip out of the rail of a table. The joint was fine, but the piece needed to be removed. Boy was I glad that I had used HG! Warm water application for a few days to soak it and then warm further and gently draw the stump of the tenon out of the mortice. make a new rail and pop it in with a fresh brew of HG.

As for warming - I use a coffee warmer plate - I use one that Black and Decker made to keep plunger pots of coffee warm. It is a fixed temp but seems to work well. maybe one of those Cona double warmers would work too and you could keep a pot of coffee warm in the shop.

I wonder if one of those USB coffee mug warmers would work (but would you want your computer in the workshop???)?