Thread: Veneering glue

I too am researching this topic as I am building some speakers that are marine ply interior and MDF exterior. Reading an old Fine Woodworking magazine they had an article on veneering using yellow glue and a heat source to activate the glue. They recommended titebond II. I bought a couple of bottles from Carba tec, 500ml bottle for about $12. Have not started the veneering yet, so cannot tell you how it works yet...

Hope this is of some assistance.

Chris

AV Syntec (http://www.avsyntec.com.au/) recommends one of their urea-formaldehyde glues for veneer on MDF. They have a distributor in Mildura.

No they don't - the local distributer stopped retailing anything as at 1st September. Don't believe everything you read on the WEB!!!
Have to do some more searching.
Found another problem - found the Selleys u/f glue and it is EXPENSIVE. If the other one is anything like as expensive it would be cheaper to forget veneering, just use solid timber!!

Cheers and thanks for the help even if it was a a bit of a miss.

Carbatec feature urea formaldehyde glue in their catalogue. It is a bit pricey at $42 for a litre. In Brisbane they sell it with the summer hardener, which means that the pot life of the glue is 3 hours, even at 30 C. This is fine for bent lamininations, but maybe not for veneer. If you can get the winter hardener instead, the pot life and clamping time are much shorter.

Timbecon also have UF in their catalogue cheaper; what they do not tell you is that they are out of stock, so I waited 10 days for it in vain after ordering it online; I was not informed that they were out of stock until I rang to find out why my order had not arrived. This is Timbecon's 3rd strike as far as I am concerned, so they are out!

Thanks for that info Rocker - I might follow up on those although they are still rather expensive. I find 2 mix glues a bit wasteful. You have to mix up more than you think you will need, (so that it all goes off at the same time and you can't waste time mixing more) and I don't know how viscous these are but some are very viscous and that leads to waste also.
I might just try yellow glue for my first experiment. It works well for laminating and veneering isn't that different particularly as my veneers are rather thick.
Yes Timbecon are a bit eratic - when they are good they are very good but - you know the ditty!
Thank for your help
Cheers

Geoff,
I am inclined to think yellow glue sets too quickly, except in cold conditions, to be useful for veneering, at least if you are dealing with large areas. I would also disagree with your statement that it is satisfactory for bent laminations. It is liable to creep under stress. It may be OK for thin laminations that have gentle curves, but thicker laminations with tight curves would be liable to fail.

Most antique furniture was veneered using hide glue which may be a little difficult to find these days. But ordinary supermarket gelatine is exactly the same except it has been prepared under hygenic conditions as a foodstuff. The only thing is you must mix it stronger than a food jelly mix and I have forgotten the proportions as a glue but its cheap enough to experiment with.

I expect if you can find the mass to water volume ratio (online or in a library) for traditional hide glue that will be near enough

Ordinary pva reactivates exactly the same as yellow glue does but it can cause black stains in some timbers.

GeoffS,

Slightly left field here, but I gather you're building an entertainment unit, and I gather you're using plain tassie oak veneer (or wanting to anyway) - why not just buy the MDF pre-veneered? Definitely easier, and quite possibly cheaper. I've used this stuff with a Jarrah veneer and it comes up nicely.

And yes, you can get it with genuine un-finished veneer on it - not talking about the plastic looking stuff.

I've had success using 2 pack epoxy for veneering. but it needs to be vacuum bagged or clamped for a while.

At present, I'm trying Hardies Hydropoxy 501, which is really designed for hardboard, but was all I could get in small amounts in a hurry. It seems to work OK but has to be clamped for 24 hours +. I'm using Tassie oak on mdf. Don't know how it would stand up to heat, but other epoxies have given no problems.

When using epoxy for veneering, you need the thinnest possible layer on each surface.

Good luck.

Whew! suddenly a hole host of replies to this.
DarrylF - Not sure where I would now go for veneered MDF locally - the firm that used to retail the Syntec products is also where we used to buy veneered MDF - no more retail sales. Basically we only have Bunnies and Dahlsens here. Otherwise one can try the local 'cabinet makers' however they are so busy making kitchen cupboards for the housing boom that never lets up here most don't want to talk to you. Anyway - I have never tried veneering so I want to do my own - even to cutting my own veneer out of some hardwood - interesting exercise.
Echnidna - Hide glue - I threw out my last glue pot, it had developed a leak but I think I still have some pearl glue somewhere. A couple of firms advertise pearl glue, but my main worry there (apart from putting together a new glue pot) is that it can go off rather quickly and needing to work the two surfaces together until it starts to grab. The proportions to mix - 1 lb of glue to 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 pints of water. (with acknowledgment to 'The Australian Home Craftsman' by Alex Smith publishing date 1929) Yes, ordinary PVAs do stain and as it is likely to creep through the joins I would prefer not have a heap of parallel lines!! I am thinking of making an experiment with the Triton crosslinked PVA - it is not supposed to stain.
Rocker - I wasn't talking about bent laminations - under those stresses I think it would creep. And yes, it does go off a bit quickly, particularly if you apply only a thin layer. I got caught by that today assembling a frame - all fitted OK on a dry test then one corner gave me trouble in the final glued assembly, by the time I finished fiddling with it the glue was definately off - fortunately not very important, there are other bits to hold it together.

After putting all this on paper (screen) I am beginning to think that hide glue is worth a try - now where do I get a glue pot?

Cheers all

2 alternatives to a conventional gluepot.
1. Some craft shops sell a small pot (about the size of an ashtray) for working with hotmelt glue sticks
2. Use an old electric frypan, fill with water. Put your glue in a large jam tin in the middle, works very well though its a bit cumbersome.

Since my last post on this thread, I have tried out the urea formaldehyde glue that Carbatec sells (AV203 with a powder hardener). It is fine for bent laminations, but I doubt if it would be good for veneering, unless you can get the liquid hardener instead of the powder one. The powder hardener, which also contains filler, is a bit granular and makes the glue rather viscous. It would probably form too thick a film to be suitable for veneering
The UF glue that Timbecon sells, however, (when they have it in stock) has a liquid hardener and is less viscous.

Echnidna - I might look in the craft shops - if that doesn't work I'll try the 2nd hand shops for an old frypan - actually that sounds quite good, no need for a gas burner going.
Rocker - How long to did you get to work with the UF glue, assuming you didn't use too much hardener? I always thought they went off rather quickly - or certainly went very viscous quickly.
I am going to try the Triton glue for my first experiment - it is the bottom shelf of an entertainment unit and will be completely filled with LPs - the veneer will have no hope of coming off, and it will never be seen.
Thanks for the assistance and I will post my results.
Cheers