Thread: Carbitool/Sutton

Hey China, you're not the only one. Your post was the first I had heard of it, so I googled carbitool vs sutton and it linked to a Sutton Tools announcement it had purchased Carb-I-Tool in 2018. Just goes to show I don't get out very much.

Regards
Twosheds

I just purchased a heap of Carbitool Forstner bits, they only arrived yesterday and have done more than open the box, but I notice they had Sutton on the packaging.

As an aside, going through the process of deciding which bits to buy I was swayed to Carbitool partly because I believed they were made in Australia. The packaging has a map of Australia on it, but no Australian made logo or country of manufacture. If Sutton own it, then no doubt they are made in China.

Cheers Andrew

This promo video from their website says they manufacture in OZ. I suspect some of their stuff is now made in China too. How long before all of it is made there I wonder?

Carbitool - The Woodworking Masters - Australian Manufacturer and Family Business - YouTube

Seems Sutton tools still manufacture in Victoria. Whether or not it's 100% I cant be certain but they are listed on the Australian Made site

Sutton Tools - The Australian Made Campaign

This is on their About page according to a Google search but I cant reach the website to determine if the below statement is out of date.

Sutton Tools manufactures cutting tools at two sites across Victoria, both for the domestic market and for export. The bulk of general production occurs at our head office site at Thomastown, in Melbourne's northern suburbs, with more specialised operations centred at our Maryborough facility


Seems overall they have a strong marketing campaign for staying Australian Made.

i wouldn't get too caught up at who owns what, companies buy other companies all the time. In most cases its just to control the market rather than to change process/manufacturing etc. Eg if sutton wanted to compete with Carbitool why spend all the money doing your own R&D setting up facilities etc when if you could acquire an existing company and take advantage of the existing branding.

It seems quite a few companies at the moment are being snapped up possibly due to the ongoing threat of financial crisis or those that started up those companies are simply deciding to call it quits.

Originally Posted by samo

Seems Sutton tools still manufacture in Victoria. Whether or not it's 100% I cant be certain but they are listed on the Australian Made site

Sutton Tools - The Australian Made Campaign

This is on their About page according to a Google search but I cant reach the website to determine if the below statement is out of date.

Sutton Tools manufactures cutting tools at two sites across Victoria, both for the domestic market and for export. The bulk of general production occurs at our head office site at Thomastown, in Melbourne's northern suburbs, with more specialised operations centred at our Maryborough facility


Seems overall they have a strong marketing campaign for staying Australian Made.

Not 100% true in my experience. Have a look at their countersinks! Yes the majority of their gear is made in Oz & NZ but imho some (P&N branded items) is manufactured in China, or there are counterfeits in some major retailers around the country.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

Not 100% true in my experience.

What’s not 100% true?

I have 3 drill bit sets from Sutton. 2x Sutton branded and 1x Frost branded.

The Sutton branded sets are manufactured in Australia and New Zealand. The Frost set is made in China. I would suggest that their DIY'er targeted products and subsidiaries would be manufactured in China. That's not to say that an Australian and Chinese made cutting tool can't be of the same quality.

Originally Posted by jack620

What’s not 100% true?

Manufacturer's spin doctors use wording that infers that "manufacturing" is Australian based. They conveniently do not say that they (may) also manufacture some of their product line offshore.

In my recent experience I have also noticed that it is quite difficult to locate the "place of manufacture" on some of Sutton's product packaging. I've also noticed the big green shed has been removing Sutton product lines notably, the "Viper" range of drill bits, and probably more lines.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

Manufacturer's spin doctors use wording that infers that "manufacturing" is Australian based. They conveniently do not say that they (may) also manufacture some of their product line offshore.

That is my observation with my recent purchase that started the discussion about place of manufacture. The product packaging and subsequent emails for promotions try very hard to give the impression they are made in Oz, but they fall short of outright saying made in Australia, at least in my dealings with them. If it were actually made here I would expect unambiguous clear promotion of that, rather than suggestions and cleverly worded statements that dance around the subject.

Cheers Andrew

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

Manufacturer's spin doctors use wording that infers that "manufacturing" is Australian based.

Some of Sutton's manufacturing IS Australian based. They don't claim all of the Sutton branded products are Australian made. And there's no mention of P&N branded products.

Their website says:

"when buying Sutton Tools products that carry the Australian Made logo, you can but with confidence, knowing they are made to Australian standards, exceeding expectations."

I don't see any spin on their website.

Originally Posted by jack620

Some of Sutton's manufacturing IS Australian based. They don't claim all of the Sutton branded products are Australian made. And there's no mention of P&N branded products.

Their website says:

"when buying Sutton Tools products that carry the Australian Made logo, you can but with confidence, knowing they are made to Australian standards, exceeding expectations."

I don't see any spin on their website.

I'm a keen supporter of Australian Made and actively promote Sutton's excellent range of Viper drill bits, and the majority of my cutting tools are Sutton brands, including EzeLap (Made in USA) diamond hones. They are good gear!

About Us - P&N Tools (pntools.com.au) - "After a series of different owners to close out the 20th century, Patience & Nicholson was purchased by another iconic Australian company in Sutton Tools, in early 2001."

P&N | Sutton Tools - the Sutton site clearly states that they own P & N.

Frost tools - "Every Frost product is manufactured to predetermined specifications. Frost products are tested in Sutton Tools’ in-house testing unit and carry the Sutton Group guarantee of workmanship."

I don't see the "Australia Made Green and Gold Jumping Kangaroo Logo as a symbol of quality" on the face of the majority of their packaging.

I don't like misleading promotion and in fact it is illegal to do so under our ACCC consumer protections. Even if a company does not set out to intentionally mislead the consumer, which can be done through omission of facts, it is still an offence.

Not clearly marking packaging with the country of origin seems illogical IF all tools are made in Australia. Stating "​The bulk of general production occurs at our head office site at Thomastown, in Melbourne’s northern suburbs, with more specialised operations centred at our Maryborough facility. We also have overseas production plants in Auckland, New Zealand, and in the Netherlands."gives the impression that there is no Asian manufacturing.

But say "Today Sutton Tools has integrated logistics and warehousing in Europe and Asia." What about manufacturing???
Sutton also state "High-speed steel is imported from France and Austria, as Sutton Tools has found the quality of this European-manufactured steel is superior to raw material sourced from Asia." which is good news, but is all HSS from those sources?

Deliberately vague and cloudy imho.

I vaguely recall reading that many of their blanks were made overseas and finished in Australia. I may well be wrong and that was a couple if years ago.

regards

While I was in the shed today, I had a quick look at some Sutton gear still in its original packaging.

To say I was surprised would not be totally true as I knew not all Sutton branded gear is "Made in Australia" and all of the new packaging states "100% Australian Owned."

However, I was surprised to see "Made in India" & "Japan" on these taps, handle and no country of origin on all of my spare drill bits.

Doesn't change things for me as I'm very satisfied with the quality, and hope it remains that way.