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  1. #16
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    double post
    CHRIS

  2. #17
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    what no cnc generated, automated wave the magic mouse Chris??

    I look forward to following the build and finally getting to see photos (can't see them without clicking on them atm)

    Oh you mean like mine 2 bits of form ply table and fence although I am using an old SCMS fence to which form ply is mounted think I got that off Christos.

  3. #18
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    Caboolture QLD AU
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    Hi Chris, just had a look at the pictures and it looks like you may have a problem with the Spindle motor being to close to the exit port. You need to get the spindle body and lift face at least 100mm in front of the extraction port. That gives you room to bring a sloping ramp up from the bottom of the port towards the collet (just clearing the lift face and spindle), which makes it relatively easy to ensure maximum intake air will flow across the underside of the table top and bit opening.

    Mike.

  4. #19
    FenceFurniture's Avatar
    FenceFurniture is offline The prize lies beneath - hidden in full view
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    Since the first post I pulled the whole thing apart and i(so on and so forth)....
    ....using the spindle presents new opportunities to do things that were not possible using a router and lift.
    What I do hate doing is making something and then having to do it again because I did not think it right through.
    I reckon that's all a function of being a creative thinker, and one thing leads to another. It's often impossible to think the whole build through that thoroughly because so many things change after we've used them for a little while - we don't realise the capability expansion we've created. Morphing the design to accommodate that may or may not be simple and easy, or might require a partial rebuild. Stuff we can't possibly think of in many instances until we do some usage in anger.

    If it could be done as you wish then we wouldn't have had gawd knows how many versions of (e.g.) Excel to learn.....flat screen TVs would have been built in the 50s ....or 70 years earlier....

    WRT to DE on an RT in YS, and at the liberty of introducing another layer of complexity as well as another machine: I've often thought that compressed air could play a very significant boosting role in DE on some machines, especially RTs. Perhaps one, two or three nozzles that can be easy moved around (via REMS or summink). Different router bits will spray the crud in different ways, so to contain it and throw it more accurately towards the DE, maybe consider shaping the air stream differently (jet stream, diffuse, in between). The pressure/intensity of the stream needs to be adjustable.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

    COLT DRILLS GROUP BUY
    Jan-Feb 2019 Click to send me an email

  5. #20
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    Using Mike's design a venturi is created and nothing remains on the table. Up until he did his I always assumed that the high speed of the bit could not be overcome totally but he has proven otherwise.
    CHRIS

  6. #21
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    Chris, I actually found an instance where some larger chips were ejected on to the table, as you know I can monitor dust particles down to small size and there was no increase in invisible dust.

    The culprit was a big very deep through dado in one pass on 50mm thick green particle board as used in kitchen bench tops. It just chips is out aggressively (perfect smooth dado though) and the air flow through the open dado starting slot is insufficient to pull some of the big chips back into the slot.

    To clarify: There is no dust left below the table with ANY ROUTING BIT, nothing can get thrown around below the table, nothing escapes the 150mm ducted intake -> below bit -> exhaust path. Obviously blind dados produce zero chips, that single pass, wide, deep cut in that type of particle board has been the exception.

    I routed twenty sides for some special craft picture frames using "partial automation" on my table, both edge forming and multi-pass rear recess on each piece and not one speck of wood dust was left on the table top. And again you cannot achieve this with a typical router top, insert plate, insert ring and plunge router.

  7. #22
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    Not much to report at the moment but I thought this may interest some who are following along. I had to get the spindle going for the manual table in the other thread and the lack of noise is absolutely astounding. At medium speeds if it was in a cabinet and running I doubt that many people would hear it at all and at full speed it is not much louder. Of course the cutter will be the noisy part when working but not having the screaming router motor to put up with will be very nice. Another plus with the spindle is the start speed can be varied to suit the bit at the VFD control panel.
    CHRIS

  8. #23
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    Dec 2017
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    I have an air cooled spindle motor on my cnc router....it's so noisy that i need to wear ear protection. Basically the fan making the noise

  9. #24
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    This one is water cooled so that must be the reason. I have never heard either type going so had not thought about the difference water cooling might make.
    CHRIS

  10. #25
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    Yes those water cooled one's are not noisy, i had one originally with my 6040.

  11. #26
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    A bit of progress has been made. When I started to think how I was going to install everything in the middle bay my brain rejected the idea as impossible due to the width being under 200mm so even screwing fasteners was a problem and until yesterday the obvious escaped me. The problem was that I needed to get at the back of the middle bay to install the dust extraction components and given the way the back was put together as an inner and outer wall bonded to a perimeter frame there was no way to do that. Yesterday while talking it over on the phone with MandJ it occurred to me that all I had to do was make a jig the same width and just two walls so I could have access to the back and also actually measure stuff. Tonight I built the lift in the jig and it was a fairly simple exercise. I finished up with it being 90.04 off the vertical which should be close enough. The following pictures show the installation of the lift in the jig and tomorrow I should be able to substantially finish the dust extraction part if all goes well and it will be totally different to any other router table.

    IMG_2264.JPGIMG_2265.JPGIMG_2266.JPG
    CHRIS

  12. #27
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    A bit more to add but other things like building a Morris Chair for Mrs P. take up time as well. I have gone back to a 150mm dust extraction port and actually bolted in the lift slides today. The lift finished up at 90.8 degrees but as I am going to reference it from the top it will stay that way for now.

    The first pic shows the sub floor that will divide the vertical space and prevent debris dropping to the cabinet floor. It has diagonals installed to prevent the back corners becoming dead spots and debris accumulating there as well
    IMG_2273.JPG


    These two shots shots are where I am starting to think about the vertical drive
    IMG_2274.JPG

    IMG_2277.JPG


    The lift rails have now been bolted to the centre bay wall, I screwed inserts into the MDF that the rails are screwed to and drilled clearance holes from the other side and used button headed allen screws. This allows me to fit and remove them as many times as I like without any problems of threads getting worn as would have happened if I had used wood screws. Besides that there is barely enough room to get a driver in there if I was to use wood screws.
    IMG_2278.JPG

    IMG_2279.JPG

    The next step is the internal air duct that will draw air from underneath the floor and hopefully I can use the back wall of that to attach the vertical drive to. Nothing is being glued in as I have found that a lot of stuff gets modified as I think about it more. For instance I have yet to decide if the air inlet will have a control/blast gate on it or the extraction point, the latter may be easier for reasons yet to be revealed. The lift adaptor plate the spindle has been attached to is 12mm Phenolic, it is very heavy and will also be used for the top as well.
    CHRIS

  13. #28
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    That looks great, and the DE looks spot on now, don't forget something like Loctite on the two bearing block adjustment screws on each block.

    Mike.

  14. #29
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    Some may have wondered what happened to this project and I sometimes wonder why I started it. It is an offshoot of a question I asked Mike at least 12 months ago on powering the lift on my A3-31 thicknesser so I could put a thickness in and press a button and the result would be a piece of timber that thickness without having to wind the handle at all. When I get this finished that project will be next.

    Back to the router table, I have rebuilt the vertical lift about four times now as I see different stuff during the build and it is mechanically finished and I am about to start installing the limit switches, stepper driver, wire it up and call that part done. Yesterday I finally came to the conclusion that the way I had assembled the internal dividers was totally dopey so I pulled them out of the cabinet and I having a rough idea of what I now want I will install the fixtures the way they should have been done in the first place, experience wins over optimism or something like that. The reason for this is change is because the restricted space in the centre bay made working in it too damned hard and I can now see that the dividers should have been installed last, some are thicker than others and while I recognised the problem a long time ago I never wanted to admit it.

    it has become apparent that with a removeable top the top can be customised to a job. Mike has discovered this in recent days and he might chip in to relate what he encountered. Basically it comes down to the placement of the chuck in relation to the front of the table. In Mike's case he could see the use of having the bit closer to the front of the table than was traditionally used and his thinking is to put it about 170mm from the front edge because he only machines small stuff and with the ability to use has sliding fence fixture for holding the piece that width is enough. If more space at the front was needed then another top could be used that in effect pushed the collet back from the front of the table. This would allow more backwards travel on the fence behind the chuck without having stuff like the fence rails hanging out the back, I have an idea haw to make the fence go back past the back of the cabinet without the fence rails protruding but that is getting a little complicated for now. At the moment I am now looking at positioning the chuck near the front of the table and utilising a different top if it is too narrow. This also makes using the table far easier than if it were to be back in the traditional place.

    I have a better view of the problems and what is required to build this now and can see why some people would find this project daunting so I want to see some more of these built so I have come up with an idea. I will get all the boards for the vertical lift and fence drives CNC machined, I will supply all the 3D printed components needed, Mike has undertaken to supply the software and any updates and it then becomes more plug and play but more on that later. The alternate way is for the files to be supplied and then manufactured locally if you have access to a CNC and 3D printer. Then the builder buys the required bits from Ebay and bolts them to the board with no measuring or head scratching involved. I am actually going to do this for mine, once all the drive boards are finally finished I am going to do drawings (correction, Master P. will do drawings) and get the boards CNC machined in white Melamine and I will spray the cabinet before it is all installed.
    CHRIS

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