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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    After rereading aaaallll of this thread I went and bought a Makita DRT50Z battery trimmer/router.

    As I said - very pleased.
    Ha! I did too just a couple of months ago. Love it!

    Jane

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  3. #152
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    May 2011
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    Albury
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    A genuine Makita collet didn't solve the runout problem for me. If I put a 1/4" (6.35mm) spiral bit in it it cuts a 5/16" (8mm) wide slot. Should have just bit the bullet and bought a Makita RTO700C.

  4. #153
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    Apr 2001
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    Perth
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    10,810

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    I have said this before: you take a chance with Chinese-unbranded items. You may get a great one, and you may get a poor one. A lot of tools are Chinese-made, and are terrific. However you pay a known name for better QC (as well as higher specifications), and the name-brand is a more reliable purchase.

    I have both the Makita and the clone, and both are excellent. The collet on the clone was a smidgeon out, compared with the Makita. I swapped it out for a aftermarket collet from a specialist manufacturer. The specs on the original Makita were the same as the aftermarket collet. With the new collet, some very mild vibration disappeared on the clone, and its performance is now identical to the Makita.

    Bottom line, don't buy clones unless you cannot afford more - and even then they need to be significantly lower in cost - and you are willing to recognise that it is a gamble. Some gambles do pay off. The real deal always pays off.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  5. #154
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    Feb 2016
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    Canberra
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    5,124

    Thumbs up My Favourite Saying

    The poor man pays twice.


    This rather good part from a story by Terry Pratchett....

    “The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

    Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

    But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

    This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.”

  6. #155
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    Aug 2020
    Location
    Sunshine Coast
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    713

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    Quote Originally Posted by aldav View Post
    A genuine Makita collet didn't solve the runout problem for me. If I put a 1/4" (6.35mm) spiral bit in it it cuts a 5/16" (8mm) wide slot. Should have just bit the bullet and bought a Makita RTO700C.
    I swapped my makita collet to see and it took out the majority of wobble so I'll run the clone into the ground and save my makita for good work. I only wanted it for the base anyways. Ended up with a few bases that will do what they need to do.

  7. #156
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    Sunshine Coast
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    I have said this before: you take a chance with Chinese-unbranded items. You may get a great one, and you may get a poor one. A lot of tools are Chinese-made, and are terrific. However you pay a known name for better QC (as well as higher specifications), and the name-brand is a more reliable purchase.

    I have both the Makita and the clone, and both are excellent. The collet on the clone was a smidgeon out, compared with the Makita. I swapped it out for a aftermarket collet from a specialist manufacturer. The specs on the original Makita were the same as the aftermarket collet. With the new collet, some very mild vibration disappeared on the clone, and its performance is now identical to the Makita.

    Bottom line, don't buy clones unless you cannot afford more - and even then they need to be significantly lower in cost - and you are willing to recognise that it is a gamble. Some gambles do pay off. The real deal always pays off.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Some years back I did a few days training at Biesse and we were talking about the carbide spiral bits that are commonly used. The company recently started making their own bits because the quality coming out of china was absolute crap. He said they went on a tour of a chinese factory that used to supply them with the carbide bits. He said it was a massive warehouse stuffed with about 30 of the best 5 axis cnc machines available and they were cranking out cutters. Each machine was manned by a supposed qualified engineer and an apprentice, but!, even though they had the best equipment available, run by a "qualified" machinist they still made the worst crap.

  8. #157
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    May 2011
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    Albury
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    Each machine was manned by a supposed qualified engineer and an apprentice, but!, even though they had the best equipment available, run by a "qualified" machinist they still made the worst crap.
    That problem exists the world over, 'pay a crap price get a crap product'. It would be interesting to know where Biesse source the parts that they put together to create a machine.

  9. #158
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    Nov 2007
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    melbourne australia
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    2,621

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    The poor man pays twice.
    I'll never understand why some people buy a router that costs less than a couple of decent quality router bits. It's like buying a car that costs less than a set of tyres and then wondering why it's unreliable.

  10. #159
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    Sunshine Coast
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    Quote Originally Posted by aldav View Post
    That problem exists the world over, 'pay a crap price get a crap product'. It would be interesting to know where Biesse source the parts that they put together to create a machine.

    Italy or the rest of Europe for a great deal of it and what isn't...

    Chinese can make relatively good stuff, as long as they're tightly controlled by a western company. Apple for instance.

  11. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    I'll never understand why some people buy a router that costs less than a couple of decent quality router bits. It's like buying a car that costs less than a set of tyres and then wondering why it's unreliable.
    It often comes down to astuteness.

    For myself I didn't buy the router, I was after the base. For the most part the base will do all it's required and there's nothing to wear out. The router was just an added free extra. And I thought I would let others know they're crap...

    The notion of buy the best and save is great for those that have that sort of disposable cash, but in the real world is completely unobtainable by a great deal of people simply because they don't have cash flow that allows such a "luxury". Vimes reasoning isn't realistic. In this day and age a cheap pair of boots cost $40 from KMart. A well made pair of Acadias, that can be repaired multiple times and lasts 10 to 15 years or more (mine are 20 with one complete resole), costs $600 from Amazon.

    Or is just a plain waste of money. E.g. I bought a ozito rotary hammer drill for $145. I've used it once. I might use it maybe one or two more times in the next 20 years, based upone the number of times I've needed a hammer drill over the past 35 years... I can easily afford it but there's no way I'm paying $600 for the equivilent Makita. Personally I rather buy beer with the left over [insert drunk emoji here].

    The example I gave of the overhead router cutters is that using cheap chinese crap alternatives costs more than if you use a $100 more expensive australian cutter. Carbide cutters that snap at 24000 rpm can be a bit problematic, to say the least.

    As is always the case YMMV

  12. #161
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    Apr 2006
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    Hobart
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    5,105

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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    I'll never understand why some people buy a router that costs less than a couple of decent quality router bits. It's like buying a car that costs less than a set of tyres and then wondering why it's unreliable.
    They buy crap bits, too.

  13. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    ....Chinese can make relatively good stuff, as long as they're tightly controlled by a western company. Apple for instance.

    Quite true, except for the bit about Western control.

    I was in China 18 months ago and saw some very high quality woodworking tools - both electrical and hand tools - made for the Chinese domestic market. Drills seemed as well made and smooth as Festool.

    The problem is the buyers for western big chain retailers who are absolutely adicted to buying crap. I suspect that they truly believe that their customers don't know any better.

    My interpretation is that bigChain wants us to shop online!

  14. #163
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    I'd actually disagree somewhat with the statement all Chinese cheap cutters are crap.

    I started out many years ago only buying Carbitool (which are awesome) and Vermont American as these were pretty much the only stuff readily available.

    I now buy loads of cheap carbide cutters for my routers and CNC, and not only are they cheap as chips, they also last pretty much as well as any others I've bought.

    Yes the good brand ones are better, there's no doubt there, but if you're not in an industrial setting, the cheap ones will do the vast majority just fine.

    And despite the many thousands of hours of use, I've never actually worn out a cutter yet, I've snapped several when I hit a clamp or something on the CNC, or maybe chip them when I hit nails or a bit of steel embedded, but even the cheapest of the cheap cutters last quite well and perform more than adequately I find.

    And I would say that if you're using an Ozito or similar, there's no benefit paying for the premium cutter to get a poofteenth of a fraction improvement.

  15. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor View Post
    ... Vimes reasoning isn't realistic. In this day and age a cheap pair of boots cost $40 from KMart. A well made pair of Acadias, that can be repaired multiple times and lasts 10 to 15 years or more (mine are 20 with one complete resole), costs $600 from Amazon. ...
    Or a pair of Blunnies, cost a quarter of that, mine are 35 years old, and are far more stylish.

    ...Or is just a plain waste of money. E.g. I bought a ozito rotary hammer drill for $145. I've used it once. I might use it maybe one or two more times in the next 20 years, based upone the number of times I've needed a hammer drill over the past 35 years...
    Sounds like it would have been much smarter to hire a drill for that day.

  16. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by aarggh View Post
    And I would say that if you're using an Ozito or similar, there's no benefit paying for the premium cutter to get a poofteenth of a fraction improvement.
    Actually this I largely cannot agree with, a good cutter will be a good cutter regardless of the motor driving it as will a great cutter .... we are talking trim routers here not thou tolerant CNC spindles

    Further up someone said why buy cheap crap and then put a good cutter in it.... well I really thought the answer to that would be self obvious but maybe not.

    I appreciate quality tools but honestly sometimes the cheap tool is the first choice for economic reasons, not everyone can afford even the makita over the ozito let alone the festool variant.

    The 5mm round over bit i use in the cheap ozito trim router is mid range in quality and does the job on even tough hardwoods that would defeat a lesser cutter.

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