Thread: 1000 c f m

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyc...r.cfm#foreword

OK and there we go,

please I have asked and put this question to Mark. " why does the unit that produces the air flow "the extraction unit", in a dusty or a cyclone in a home/domestic system placed before the filters " his reply its cheaper to produce this type of unit for the home market, IE "one size fits all" than the cost designing a small foot print system where the filters are before the extraction unit.

To make his point clear I was told to go and look at industrial units, and what I found was that most units that have been installed or upgraded I the last five to ten years have the extraction unit after the filters and not in the dirty air flow, thus removing the problem of direct impact of air born materials.

One company makes turbine powered extraction units for the mines, that will collapse a 1200mm @ 12mm wall thickness ducting.

so why hasn't the home market changed its thinking, because there is no money in the research and development. "why change it, it's not broken"

28.32m3/m or 1000cfm is at the source of the dust/power tool, saw bench, router table.

So the single phase DE's we can buy in Australia won't achieve 1,000 cfm at our machines because:
1. The motors aren't big enough.
2. As we have 50 Hz power, not 60 Hz, the motors don't turn fast enough.
3. The fans are almost always too small a diameter. My 3 HP unit has a 12" fan!

Why can't we buy something off the shelf that has some hope of meeting our needs without spending a fortune or totally rebuilding it? If we spend a fortune can we buy a suitable single phase machine?

I don't know! If somebody else does please tell me.

I spent the morning sitting outside (before it stormed on me!) with a nice cuppa and the ipad and read the Pentz link above by BobL.

Pretty good stuff!

There are very solid plans in there. Lots of good detail, all of his trial and errors as well as a good deal of the logic behind various designs. He hasn't simply said "do this"... he has taken each part and discussed it in a very readable manner. There is a very good discussion on motors, the types and matching them to various impellers.

Its a very good and thoughtful bit of writing that should be captured somewhere in case he wants to disappear it and make something commercially! (if he doesn't already).... or he dies and the ISP bills stop being paid....

I find it really astonishing at how hard it is to buy something as simple in spec as: a n-HP motor, n-inch impeller and housing bolted to a 1000cfm capable 0.5 micron pleated filter and a good cyclone and the whole kaboodle doesn't wake the dead. Ah yes, it doesn't also cost a kidney.

Being sexy and sleek would be nice too. With sparkly LEDs.... and a remote control!

Maybe it isn't possible? (id skimp on the sparkly LED's)

Id make one myself, but Id describe my sheet metal skills as woeful and welding worse.... so making one is way out of the question.... BUT, Id pay a fair price!

BTW, does anyone have a 1000cfm capable machine? Just HOW NOISY IS IT? ..... is it something one could even keep in their sheds?

Originally Posted by aldav

Speaking of knuckleheads, how do you get multiple quotes in the one reply?

Click the multi-quote button (next to the normal 'reply with quote' button) on the posts you want, then use the normal 'reply to thread' button at the bottom of the page.

Originally Posted by Evanism;1866871BTW, does anyone have a 1000cfm capable machine? Just[I

HOW NOISY IS IT[/I]? ..... is it something one could even keep in their sheds?

Got a Micronair VC8 at work and it's pretty quiet (can have a conversation next to it). It lives outside, but for space reasons (over 2m wide, 1.8m deep and about 2 storeys high) rather than noise; if you had a shed big enough it could live inside.
Never tested the flow rate but, given that it has an 11kw motor (might even be 15kw, not 100% sure) I'm going to assume that 1000cfm is not much of a problem.

Originally Posted by mannum3

No Filters at all???

What about the very fine invisible dust (VTID)????

All removed without loss.

How many more clues do you need?



Time to go.
Cheers Barry

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you have something you want to tell us, please just tell us. I have no desire to guess, or to read your old posts for hints and then guess - if it's worth telling, then why not just say it?

To answer one question, no there is no system off the shelf that will deliver this 1000cfm at the machine, unless it's fitted right next to the machine, and this amount is for the removal of the fine dust at the source.

My understandings were the problems lie.

hood and ports restricting airflow.
duct work lengths and size
junctions and bends
friction inside duct work to name a few.

but why are we still using backward curved radial blowers, why cant this be used


Airfoil wheelsincorporate a blade design with the cross section of an airplane wing. They arethe most efficient design for moving large volumes of air. They are commonlyused for ventilation, forced cooling at higher pressures, and on dustcollectors, where the fan is on the clean side of the collector.

has anybody pulled a part a DYSON vac, a turbo charger, a waste transfer pump (the Air Side)

Originally Posted by Opelblues2

To answer one question, no there is no system off the shelf that will deliver this 1000cfm at the machine, unless it's fitted right next to the machine, and this amount is for the removal of the fine dust at the source.

Should probably qualify that as "no system off the shelf that is of a size and cost appropriate for a home workshop​"

Elan, I can hardly understand why you're looking at this thread, you live on a different planet to me!

Barry, make with the goods!

Bob, you can't just direct us to the Bill Pentz site (which I had already studied extensively) and leave it at that! If you can't do better than that you will be diminished in my estimation. Step up to the mark, this is not a witch hunt and I am desperately hoping that there is a manageable, convenient and effective solution to this most vexing of problems. I still haven't seen anything that suggests that such a solution exists. I realise that you don't owe any of us anything, but the assistance you have provided to countless forum members leads me to believe that you are a strong supporter of the forum and its aims and aspirations. After all there are some really good blokes on here and we deserve (and need) all the help we can get!

Cheers,
David

Originally Posted by aldav

Elan, I can hardly understand why you're looking at this thread, you live on a different planet to me!

What makes you say that?

I might be spoilt with the workshop I have access to, but I'm still interested when people claim to have a ground-breaking solution to a big problem.

sorry I do mean what said. in the years of woodwork and boiler making trade i have not come across a dust extraction system that is for the home or domestic hobby industry that will get anywhere near the magic 1000cfm at the source of dust.

On saying that i have in my early years of fabrication, welded up larger blowers that were ordered and designed for a Cement dust, Bauxite Dust, and or aluminium oxide. i do remember on that you could stand inside the body, it was driven by CAT motor V12 I think.

what i'm trying to do myself is get a system " hoods, duct work, Separator, collector, filters, extractor fan/power drive unit " with a small footprint, rated to 240v/50hz 2900rpm. i did find a motor

http://www.krotec.com.au/www/home/

Originally Posted by aldav

Elan, I can hardly understand why you're looking at this thread, you live on a different planet to me!

Barry, make with the goods!

Bob, you can't just direct us to the Bill Pentz site (which I had already studied extensively) and leave it at that! If you can't do better than that you will be diminished in my estimation. Step up to the mark, this is not a witch hunt and I am desperately hoping that there is a manageable, convenient and effective solution to this most vexing of problems. I still haven't seen anything that suggests that such a solution exists. I realise that you don't owe any of us anything, but the assistance you have provided to countless forum members leads me to believe that you are a strong supporter of the forum and its aims and aspirations. After all there are some really

I might respond when there's something worth responding to.

Originally Posted by BobL

I might respond when there's something worth responding to.

That's a very high and mighty attitude. Thanks mate! I'm disappointed.

"but I'm still interested when people claim to have a ground-breaking solution to a big problem"

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to miss lead anybody, do understand where i first posted i should said " in the computer design and simulation software, my new blower is able to achieve this."

because parts of the shape the impeller may look like another impeller "which has a Patent on it" even if it is bigger. you have to get approval to produce and test, this costs money. the $1800 is for only the impeller not anything else

for years we made things by cutting, gluing, welding, folding, pressing, or casting to name a few. so to make a one off protype was very expensive,
now we can print objects, with complex shapes or use 5 axis Machining.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjzhygzafr0

The one other problems noise generate by the standard generic blower , what is the cause. Mark sent me this link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi20ds8z7Oo

what i am finding i that more and more home hobbits in the woodworking area are tied of the generic systems and want something that is better, but don't have $2.000 or more to spend and that is great the more people that want a better system.

my two fingers are sore from typing