Thread: 2hp DE Build

Originally Posted by BobL

What's the effective surface area of these filters ...

I forgot to ask. I assume it's quite large because the wall thickness is 56mm. Will check though.

Originally Posted by BobL

If you are planning to put the DC outside? If so there's little benefit in having the 99.999% efficiency.

No, it will live inside. Workshop is heated in winter.

Originally Posted by jack620

I forgot to ask. I assume it's quite large because the wall thickness is 56mm. Will check though.

No, it will live inside. Workshop is heated in winter.

Might not need to be in a few years time, might need AC instead.

Originally Posted by BobL

Have you measured it static pressure as that will be another useful indicator.

I measured the SP of the old blower. Exactly 8" of water on the suction side. Is that reasonable?
I'll measure the new blower tomorrow.

BTW, the sales rep at Pneuvay said he could see no reason why their filter couldn't be run in reverse (inside to outside). I'll confirm that with him tomorrow.

Originally Posted by jack620

I measured the SP of the old blower. Exactly 8" of water on the suction side. Is that reasonable?

That's normal.

the sales rep at Pneuvay said he could see no reason why their filter couldn't be run in reverse (inside to outside). I'll confirm that with him tomorrow.

I reckon it would be worth a try but still work out the surface area - they might need cleaning a bit more often than regular ONES.

Originally Posted by jack620

I've been looking for cartridge filters at reasonable prices. Someone posted a link a couple of weeks ago to Pneuvay Engineering. I rang them today. They don't sell cartridges that capture dust on the inside as your typical hobbyist DE uses. All their filters flow outside to inside, which is a PITA. However, they are much cheaper than anything available through the usual suspects.

They have a generic brand 99.999% 0.5 micron filter for $115. I've made a Sketchup drawing of it to give you an idea of its size. Given the dollar saving over the inside-to-outside filters, I reckon it would be worth making an enclosure to accept this type of filter. Has anyone on the forum done this? Are there any obvious problems I'm missing?

That's the same size as the one I use.



I think it's intended for use on a Diesel engine. It does clog easily, but I have no direct experience with any other type for comparison. A slotted disc (ala Thien baffle) in the bottom increases the cleaning interval by about five times. The baffle also adds quite a bit of pressure loss.

The filters I got from work are like those and were used in downdraft tables. They are Donadson Torit brand and are 256 sq ft each. I have some others from a large sanding booth that are oval from the same maker and are 190 sq ft. The Wynn filters that come on ClearVue's are 300 sq ft each. Wynn make replacement filters for the Donaldson Torit and other brands too. The outside in filters on the downdraft tables are slid on to a triangular metal frame much like an antenna tower (they call it a yoke) that is mounted to one end of the cabinet with the impeller. The other end gets the filters slid over the frame and a disc is tightened on it to press them tight. The disc is stepped to seal the cartridges and the cabinet at the same time. The part of the cabinet the yoke is mounted to is open so the air can flow from inside the cabinet to the impeller. Same principle is used in the dust booths.

For your installation you would basically do the same but unless you wanted to make metal frames, an MDF yoke made as a cross (X), one end attached to the wall with the hole in it and some all thread attached to the other end to receive the disc would do it. A bolted panel at the disc end would close (easier than the double disc version of the commercial units) it and a baffled version at the open end would help muffle some of the noise and allow for access to blow the filters in situ occasionally. You can mount the filters vertically but horizontally is easier to access. Attached are some manuals of a booth and filter array, that illustrate how they do it to use as inspiration for your own. I couldn't get the manual for the downdraft table to work but you can search it. You would want to make the incoming air hit the sides of the cabinet rather than into the side of the filters to extend their life.

Ambient Air Filtration Tubesheet | Cartridge Dust Collectors | Donaldson Industrial Dust, Fume & Mist

https://www.donaldson.com/content/da...EP-ENG-IOM.pdf

That's the way I'll be doing mine. I believe there are a couple filter installations on the US CV site Gallery that are outside in.

One other thing about the industrial filters. They can be cleaned several times by specialist companies then they get really clogged and restored back to near new flows where the Chinese paddle types come apart during the process. So they are durable.

A guy I know that just became a CV dealer said he cleaned out his filters of his own CV-1800 after two years of use and got about half a cup of dust from them. I would love to hear if other CV users with the filters have the same results. That would indicate that a cleanout bottom with a vacuum port or a removable tray might not be needed. Removal of a single filter would allow access to clean the bottom. Naturally that goes out the window if you overflow the cyclone bin and fill up the cartridge house.

Pete

Originally Posted by dmorse

That's the same size as the one I use.

Thanks for the feedback. Did you intend to post a photo? If so, I'm not seeing it. I would love to see a pic of your setup.

Originally Posted by jack620

Thanks for the feedback. Did you intend to post a photo? If so, I'm not seeing it. I would love to see a pic of your setup.

Yes, there should be a photo. I'm trying to use "Manage Attachments" and reuse a photo from a previous post. I can see it, but let me try a different method:

Originally Posted by QC Inspector

The Wynn filters that come on ClearVue's are 300 sq ft each.

Good to know. I've emailed Wynn to see if they have a dealer in Australia.

Originally Posted by QC Inspector

For your installation you would basically do the same but unless you wanted to make metal frames, an MDF yoke made as a cross (X), one end attached to the wall with the hole in it and some all thread attached to the other end to receive the disc would do it.

That sounds good, but I'm going to explore the option of running the filter in reverse first. My DE design didn't allow room for a cabinet that accepts outside-in filters. It will add a substantial amount of bulk and weight to my mobile DE.

Originally Posted by QC Inspector

That's the way I'll be doing mine.

I'd love to see some pics when it's finished.

Originally Posted by QC Inspector

A guy I know that just became a CV dealer said he cleaned out his filters of his own CV-1800 after two years of use and got about half a cup of dust from them.

That's great. In that case, I would probably just dispose of my filter every 12 months. At $115 each I wouldn't bother cleaning it. Multiple Donaldson Torit filters would be substantially more expensive and worth the effort to clean.

Originally Posted by dmorse

Yes, there should be a photo. I'm trying to use "Manage Attachments" and reuse a photo from a previous post. I can see it, but let me try a different method:

Thanks for the pic. I like your ratchet strap hold-down method.

Originally Posted by jack620

That's great. In that case, I would probably just dispose of my filter every 12 months. At $115 each I wouldn't bother cleaning it. Multiple Donaldson Torit filters would be substantially more expensive and worth the effort to clean.

That's with a 5hp 15" ClearVue CV 1800 Cyclone. Your small cyclone setup won't have the near same efficiency so the filters will fill up much much faster. You will need to blow them out with a compressed air nozzle at 60 PSI max or a leaf blower much more often.

The cleaning of my filters was $40 each and they were so packed that the automatic pulse cleaners didn't have an effect anymore, so completely plugged. After the industrial cleaning they were within 2% or better of new filters. Basically you can clean them 3 times for the cost of replacing them once. Blowing them out often will keep them clean for years. Our dust booths and downdraft tables were used round the clock, only being shutdown for stat holidays. The filters were sent out every 3 months for deep cleaning while the second set were in rotation. That's about 2,000 hours every 3 months. Tossing them every year would be a waste of filters and money. Cost of a filter and 3 cleanings is $235 cost of 4 filters is $460 in the same period of time. For our purposes that filter should last many years and only need replacing based on condition.

I don't think Wynn sell their filters in Australia but you can get a pair of them from ClearVueOz. Accessories and Spare Parts | Clearvueoz.com.au

Pete

Thanks Pete.

Originally Posted by QC Inspector

Your small cyclone setup won't have the near same efficiency so the filters will fill up much much faster.

Why do you say that? I understand my system won't capture anywhere near as much dust at the source, because it won't have the CFM of the Clearvue. However, I see no reason why the Oneida's separation efficiency shouldn't be as good as the CV.

Originally Posted by QC Inspector

Blowing them out often will keep them clean for years. ...For our purposes that filter should last many years and only need replacing based on condition.

That's good news. I plan to incorporate a manometer in the DE to give me an idea when the filter is becoming clogged. Stumpy Nubs on YouTube recommends cleaning the filter when the SP has risen by 25% of the difference between the fully open and fully blocked SP values.

Originally Posted by QC Inspector

I don't think Wynn sell their filters in Australia but you can get a pair of them from ClearVueOz. Accessories and Spare Parts | Clearvueoz.com.au

Ouch! $675 each. Out of my league unfortunately.

Originally Posted by jack620

Why do you say that? I understand my system won't capture anywhere near as much dust at the source, because it won't have the CFM of the Clearvue. However, I see no reason why the Oneida's separation efficiency shouldn't be as good as the CV.

The barrel/upper portion of the cyclone plays a roll in the separation efficiency. The Oneida basically has no upper cone so that would imply a reduction in efficiency.

If you haven't already read through Bill Pentz's site you should. It isn't an easy read and lots is repeated, primarily for those that cherry pick certain sections, but it is very good.

Pete

PS. Clear Vue in the US sells a single filter for $200US and converting it is about $300Aus. Check with CVOZ and see if the $675 is for a pair.

If outside venting is not being considered because a shed is heated in winter what about setting up a simple diverter that sends unfiltered air outside when the shed is not being heated. This would lengthen the longevity of any filter by the ratio of unheated to heated time.
This will depend on the efficiency of fine dust extraction of the cyclone. It works for a Clearvue because of the efficiency and the very large volumes of air moved.