Thread: 'Ad-hoc' dust extraction

Charlie, you've nearly half a century to go to reach my age. The question is do you want to?
If you do, you have to do something about the dust. I know it's expensive to get dust extractors and a nuisance to wear masks but it pays in the long run. Otherwise there's no long run.
Sorry if I seem to be preaching
Jim

There's a thread going right now about cheap shop vacuum wet/dry vacs at Aldi...check it out for the details (I didn't read it since I have too many already)

Look for a good secondhand vacuum cleaner with plenty of grunt. Search these forums for mini cyclone/dust seperator to use as a secondary dust collection device. These help keep the dust away from the filters in the vacuum and make it easier to empty once full.

My first attempt at dust control was buying a secondhand vacuum with 2400w for about $40 and getting a triton dust bucket. This worked really well. Know I have a mini cyclone I built myself between my powertools and vacuum.

My suggestion is that you make yourself a mini-cyclone to go between the machine making the dust and the vacuum. Here is a link to the design that one of the members here, Sturdee, came up with. I made it and it works.

This will really help with the dust. But take additional precautions as well. For instance get a Triton or Trend respirator - they are much more effective than a paper dustmask and more comfortable to wear.

Reading back I realise I was a bit negative, but the idea of sanding in such a small area gave me the creeps.
The other blokes on this thread have been much more positive so try to follow their advice.
Good luck and hope you have many years of woodworking in front of you.
Jim

I bought a shop vac.... but it's so noisy I just can't handle having it on the whole time I use the saw. Wearing a dustmask, eyeprotection and then adding earplugs is just too awkward, so I just wear the dustmask.... but I wear it religiously.
Every so often I get up and give the area a quick run over with the vac.

If they ever come up with a quiet and affordable dustextraction I'll give it serious thought again.
Juvy

Dear Charlie,

Given the small size of your workshop, I guess you could only be talking about handheld powertools. And as Jim is intimating, the small size of the workspace will kind of maginify the health problems that will result if you don't do something about the dust. As the guys are suggesting, a vacuum cleaner of some sort will be the way to go. The very best setup in this department would be a bagless Workshop Vac with an Auto-Start Power-Outlet on the front that you can plug a powertool into (up to a certain wattage, mind you). You plug the powertool into the power-outlet on the front of the Vac, and then plug the Vac's hose (with any necessary adaptors) into the tool's dust-port, and when you turn the tool on, the Vac comes on. Turn the tool off, and the Vac turns itself off after a few seconds. They're brilliant. Makes your sandpaper work better too! The thread with the one in it that Greg is talking about can be found here:

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ad.php?t=73076

Read the first few posts, and then go to the end and read the last few posts, because I don't think you'll find any more at Aldi, but someone seems to be flogging them off on e-bay at an unbeatable Buy-It-Now price (the link to the listing is in one of the posts towards the end). If you can get one, then you can start thinking about Mini-Cyclones and Dust-Separators to make it even better, as KorDes and jmk89 have suggested.

No matter what, though, also get a Dust-Mask. If you can't afford the $200+ for the Triton Respirator, at least get something like mine, which is shown in the photo below. The filter cartridges are removable and replaceable, but I just use my Workshop Vac to blow them out every now and then, using the method described in the thread at the above link.

But don't leave it to chance Charlie. Definitely do something about it.

Best Wishes,
Batpig.

Wow, I never really realized how important this was. I don't think I will be able to follow the instructions firstly because I can't find a dustbucket anywhere, and secondly because I would probably mess it up anyway.


I did some ebaying and I can up with these wet and dry cleaners. If you could tell me which would be best, that would be great as I really have no idea.

VAX Appliances VO-3000 Wet/Dry Vacuum
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAX-Wet-and-Dr...d=p3286.c0.m14

Kerstar 20L
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kerstar-KV20-1...d=p3286.c0.m14

VAX
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Old-vaccum-cle...d=p3286.c0.m14

or there are Henrys, which are expensive but I've heard them to be good.

Henry 1
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Henry-Hoover_W...d=p3286.c0.m14

Henry 2
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HENRY-TWO-SPEE...d=p3286.c0.m14

Maybe I can modify one of these cleaners?

Thanks

Charlie and Charlies lungs.

Dear Charlie,

Dreadfully sorry Guvner! Didn't realise at first that you were from The Old Country... That being the case, something like this is exactly what you want:
http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=128139
The most important features are that it has an "Auto-Start" power-outlet on the front for plugging tools into, that the cylinder is made of Stainless Steel, and that it uses a Cartridge Filter instead of a bag. It seems to be at a pretty darned good price too!

Good Luck Old Chap!
Batpig.

Originally Posted by Batpig

Dear Charlie,

Dreadfully sorry Guvner! Didn't realise at first that you were from The Old Country... That being the case, something like this is exactly what you want:
http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=128139
The most important features are that it has an "Auto-Start" power-outlet on the front for plugging tools into, that the cylinder is made of Stainless Steel, and that it uses a Cartridge Filter instead of a bag. It seems to be at a pretty darned good price too!

Good Luck Old Chap!
Batpig.

Won't the tools have different diameter outlets?

Will all wet and dry hoovers be ok for my purpose or do they need to be specialised, because i would rather buy two cheapies for £5 each than £100 for a newer model.

Thank you,

Charlie

Dear Charlie,

Originally Posted by charlieart66

Won't the tools have different diameter outlets?

Unfortunately - yes... The buggers just can't seem to agree on a standard dust-port size! A combination of brand "Snobbery", combined with trying to get you to buy their own brand of Vac, I'd say. Anyhow, Karcher seem to have a few different adaptors and fittings for powertools. Sometimes the Vac you buy might even have a rubberised "stepped" adaptor in it that will work with a few different diameters...

Originally Posted by charlieart66

Will all wet and dry hoovers be ok for my purpose or do they need to be specialised, because i would rather buy two cheapies for £5 each than £100 for a newer model.

I guess for £5 it would be hard to go wrong, but make sure it's bagless - otherwise the bag-buying will drive you batty... The Auto-Starting is pretty hard to beat, though. If you can find a second-hand, bagless Auto-Starter for £10, you'd really be on to something...

Tally Ho!
Batpig.

I bought one of the Aldi $99 vacs a couple of weeks ago to replace my old 750w Shopvac that has seen better days. I REALLY appreciate how quite the Aldi unit is in comparison to the Shopvac screamer!

Several years ago, before I knew any better, I bought a 1hp underbench dust collector to clear shavings from the only serious chip maker I own, a retro Chinese cast iron thicknesser that has lots of power but not much finesse. I don't use the thicknesser much but when I do I overload the filter bag in no time and as can be seen from the first photo, I lost patience one day ending up slitting the end of the bag open because I was so frustrated trying to empty it. Hence the bag is now closed with a hose clamp.

I read about Phil Thien's experiments in this thread and have recently been thinking of making a pre separator for the dusty, but haven't as yet sourced a suitable sized drum that will take the four inch hose connections.

I did however do some dumpster diving a week ago and came up with a 20L paint can which I thought I could experiment on as a pre separator for the Aldi vac.

I roughly followed Phil's design using only 50mm plumbing parts. I played with the inlet side first. I found a Hoover(tm) hose and head at the local Opportunity shop for $5 and 4 50mm plumbing pieces from bunnies - a right angle female-female, a male threaded connector, a female threaded connector and an end cap. I used the threaded connectors to sandwich the lid, but I found the connectors didn't tighten up tightly on the thin metal and had to cut a piece of the threaded stuff to screw down firmly onto the lid. I then cut a round hole in the cap and two notches to allow the vacuum hose to lock in. I then just tightened everything up without gluing anything.

I didn't have any hole cutters. I drilled out the hole in the lid by first going around with a 1/4" stub drill and tidied things up with a little mini grinder wheel in the hand drill.

By the time I got to the vac connection side I felt the threaded connectors were not worth the effort and simply used a 50 to 40mm reducer and a 50mm connector. I was more careful about cutting the hole in the lid this time a bit undersized using a hacksaw blade in a jigsaw rather than connecting up 1/4"drill holes. This worked a lot better and with a little filing I had a good fit to the male side of the reducer. I used a little KY and the connectors slid perfectly into place. The 40mm hole is still too big for the vac hose so I cut a piece of 40mm pipe and pushed that in, it was still a little big but I also had a 40mm connector washer that I slipped over the vac hose and that gives a push fit into the reducer.

I then cut the MDF baffle along the lines of Phil's design. I just cut it out with a jigsaw. No engineered and routered perfect circles for this experiment.

For a test I vacuumed the workshop floor. The can is top heavy and fell over a couple of times, that's why the debris is piled to one side of the can in the open picture. The lid stayed on at all times just by the vacuum pressure, no clamps needed. The separator worked very well. The picture of the open Aldi vac shows how little very fine dust actually got through to the vac filters.

I think this is a keeper. Emptying is soooo easy. The main problem is the Hoover(tm) attachment connectors are a bit strange. I just need to find a few more bits of Hoover pipe to play with making connectors for the workshop tools.

Let me get this straight, is the extra cannister used to allow more time in-between emptying?

In this photo it seems that the air is sucked from the white Hoover head to the paint cannister through the black pipe to the Hoover itself? Surely suction will be lost.

This would mean that the Hoover would get filled up first, at which point it would lose suction meaning that it cannot fill the paint tin up as the Hoover is full and subsequently loses suction?


Also, does this mean I can buy a wet and dry cleaner and simply wire it up to an oil barrel outside? or will I need a cleaner with more suck (watts?)

Come to think of it will 1400w be enough, or should I be looking at a different measure of power?


Thank you very much, sorry for all the questions.


Charlie

Just in case none of you have heard my broken record before, and with apologies to those that have.
RANT ON
I have measured the very fine dust catching capacity of a number of vacuum cleaners and its pretty clear that UNLESS you are using HEPA filtered vacuum cleaners / DC, all they do is collect the big bits (that don't hurt you as much) and spray/recirculate the very fine dust (which is what you should be worried about) around inside your shed. No amount of looking around for this fine dust will let you see it.

Vacuum cleaners that use high velocity air flow can actually MAKE more fine dust than they suck in because they impact and tumble larger particles together to make smaller ones. High air velocities also lifts very fine dust off surfaces. They are also just as useless inside houses.

If you can't use HEPA filtration on a vacuum cleaner at least vent the outlet, with all the very fine stuff, outside your shed. No one can see it and it dilutes into the atmosphere like thousands of people and millions of marine creatures that pee into the ocean every day.

Masks don't help much either unless you wear them all the time inside your shed.

Can't afford HEPA? then fresh air is the next best thing. You might have to wear a jacket though especially if you are in the old country.
RANT ORF.
Cheers