Thread: Alternative to Clearvue

This question has probably been asked before...

Can the VFD, motor and filters be purchased locally?

I have access to plasma CNC, and sheet metal fabricationn shops near me.

I'll sit corrected if wrong. The CVs that were sold in Australia had locally available motors. A member or two could give you the information on the data plate on theirs.

The VFD they were sold with were made by Powtran in China. Bob (forum mod) has a good deal of knowledge on them (search the forum) and NCArcher also has a lot of knowledge about them and I believe wrote the programming guide for the Aussie CV site.

Because of your climate most people vent directly outside without using filters. There are Aussie companies that sell and/or make filters if you feel you need them. Likely more than the two below. Search Industrial Cartridge Filters or variations.

Supplier of dust collector filter, bags, cartridges and cyclones

Dust Collector Cartridge Filters - Pleated Cartridge | Filter Makers

Pete

Originally Posted by QC Inspector

I'll sit corrected if wrong. The CVs that were sold in Australia had locally available motors. A member or two could give you the information on the data plate on theirs.

The VFD they were sold with were made by Powtran in China.

Here are photos of info on Techtop 3ph motor and Powtran 1ph VFD that were being supplied by Clearview Oz...

20221017_115428.jpg

20221021_114319.jpg

I have acquired a clearveu off the “marketplace “ recently.
I’ll post the photos of data plates. I don’t know what the date would have been when purchased from clearveu oz but both motor and VFD are sourced differently to the one Neil was looking at.

Peter

37E19286-8EE9-4F81-BE07-72420180B05B.jpg6E9AE16A-0D91-4FB2-A6A8-B52143C16039.jpg

Thanks to both of you for sending the photos. I'm guessing the Powtran VFD was the most recent option offered by CV Australia?

Quick update:
I found a local reseller for Techtop where I'm based. Next on the cards is to gather all the bits and pieces I need to start working on the sheet metal components. Will post an update again once I make some real progress.

The motor and VFD choices have a bit of an interesting history in Oz. After the first shipment which used a Leeson motor (painted yellow) the US government banned that type of motor and I was a bit p'd off because it looked like the whole project might go down the drain. I eventually settled on a Techno motor which required Clearvue to modify the build to suit that motor. I had settled on a Huanyang VFD to power the motor, the early sales used the Huanyang but around the same time Huanyang stopped production of that VFD and we had to find a substitute and this is where Powtran came into the picture and I am led to believe was always used up until the end of sales in Oz. Some customers may have sourced their own VFD's so don't count on a Powtran always being used. Stephen Durley fairly early on changed to a Techtop motor for some reason, I guess cost was the primary one and that also continued to the end (as I understand it). There were some sales that used 415V VFD's as well to control speed and soft start up but not many though the one shown in the above picture is one and it is not a Powtran.

The combinations:

Leeson yellow motor - Haunyang VFD
Leeson yellow motor - Powtran VFD
Techno Motor - Powtran VFD
Techtop Motor - Powtran VFD

Hi form members
Thanks Chris for posting the photos of clearveu data plates.
I have a 3ph 20amp plug-in my shop but was hoping to leave that as a dedicated supply for the thicknesser and avoid the cost of having a 2nd 3ph plug fitted.
So I have spent quite a bit of time searching for the powtran model identified in Chris’s photo but I cannot find any information (bit out of my depth)
So have anyone got an alternative idea of a 1 ph to 3ph VFD that would do the job?

Cheers PW

The user guide for the Powtran last used with the Oz CV is:

A-guide-to-using-a-Powtran-VFD.pdf

I downloaded it when it was announced they were closing down.

If you really need me to I can do some deep diving and dig out the model number of the Powtran I have.

Pete

Found it with a different search. You would want the P19100-004G1. Got it from the Manual on page 6. Link Below.

https://www.powtran.com/upload/20210...1105208353.pdf

I'll add that you should contact Powtran directly and check to see if that is the best option to use. It's been 6 years since I got mine and they may have better options to consider.

The PI9 series has not been used for some years, at least by me and I don't know if it is still available so contact Powtran directly as I have no current knowledge on what is now available.

For what it is worth here are my thoughts on the supply problem. Everyone wants to have one but an advert mentioned earlier in this thread AFAIK received zero interest and I have got to ask why?????

A lot is made of the lack of an impeller but when I asked for an expression of interest to get them made except for three inquiries (and I thank them for that) the lack of interest was deafening. Why?????

OK, the rant is over let's get down to how to build one at the best possible price which will be thousands less than trying to import one which I doubt is possible. Importing one has a single big problem in that the cyclone sold here used a different motor plate to the US version and I am not sure getting the correct version is even possible though one could be made if push came to shove.

The way I would go about it is this, find enough people who want one and using the info on BP's website do some digital plans that are somewhere easily available because I think BP's website stops people dead, it is so badly made and so chaotic no one wants to try and fathom the whole thing out. Once the plans are available they can be lofted on to 3mm MDF by anyone and so far we are in for about $20.

Using the MDF patterns the galvanised sheet can be cut out or the patterns given to a sheet metal workshop and let them cut it out. DYI would most probably cost $100 and several days work. A standard motor would be best as digital patterns for the motor plate would then be possible. A dual voltage motor will be around $500 but don't quote me on that.

A VFD is going to cost around $500 and an impeller the same and the cyclone body is anyone's guess depending on the approach. I would recommend a 17" impeller because the motor speed could be pulled right back to somewhere like 40hz on a 150mm ducted system which is way way cheaper than a 225mm system and the noise factor would be very low. Building a 17" impeller is no more expensive than a 15" or 16". The fan housing would have to be enlarged slightly but that is all.

My thinking on the impeller sizing and power supply has changed radically over the last year, somes thicker than others and it has taken a decade of being involved in the business side of DE to crystalise my current thoughts. Never buy a single phase DE and using a bigger impeller will allow the DE to be run at slow speeds. A 150mm ducted system is totally adequate for 99% of hobbyist yet the same machine would be just about perfect for a Men's Shed when run at 60 to 70hz.

Form a group and the above plan works, I am still prepared to get the impellers made but my involvement in the rest would only be advisory and nothing more. Getting the body made locally to each person will save a shed load of money because there are no transport costs so unless a few people are local to each other pooling manufacturing the body won't work.

The engine plate could be knocked out on a CNC and that could be done in batches as they could be posted for not a lot of money. The patterns made in 3mm MDF could be saved for future use maybe for others to use to make more for others who want a cyclone though I think my plan is simple enough for anyone to do it. Pooling the available talent to make the digital plans (PDF?) is the way to go and knowing the motor recommended will enable the motor to be sourced locally again removing transport costs.

Some Men's Sheds have a quite good metal working section and they might be able to make the body for a good price and they also might have some interest in building one themselves. The single phase supply for the VFD would have to be 20 amps or better but that can be sized to the ramp speed of the VFD, the slower it ramps up the less current needed. The start current load can be minimised by making sure all blast gates are closed when starting.

Originally Posted by ABeanie

Does anyone know if any of the commercially available cyclones in Australia are suitable for direct venting outside?

I installed a short cone Taiwanese cyclone (the CV is a long cone) and it does not vent any visible dust to the atmosphere.

Thanks Cris.
Im still tossing up the 1ph/3ph options.
I have a digital manual for a CV and it points me to “if you cannot get the required height see addendum A”.
Can anyone tell me what does “addendum A” say? As my digital manual has 41 pages and no “addendum A”
Has some one got a plan of the CV 1800 exhaust transission bend as photoed in the manual?

Peter

I looked through the manuals I squirrelled away and none of them are close to 41 pages long so I don't have the addendum either.

There was a thread last year near the end of October that showed a CV being installed in a low ceiling area. It was tilted on an angle. I eventually got ahold of him and he told me it was the Fine Woodworking Knots thread drawing that he went by. He originally had it mounted vertically and had to adapt it to lower ceiling in his new place and said it works just as well tilted as it did when vertical. Christ also posted a few pictures of a low ceiling installation that might have been what the addendum was about.

Pete

Originally Posted by QC Inspector

There was a thread last year near the end of October that showed a CV being installed in a low ceiling area. It was tilted on an angle. I eventually got ahold of him and he told me it was the Fine Woodworking Knots thread drawing that he went by. He originally had it mounted vertically and had to adapt it to lower ceiling in his new place and said it works just as well tilted as it did when vertical.

The Dyson vacuum cleaners, which are just a bunch of mini-cylones bunched together, have always been tilted...

https://images.reevoo.com/products/2...3/original.png

I understand that you can tilt cyclones as much as 60deg and they still function. One of the advantages of the cyclone design with impeller on top is the smaller footprint inside a small workshop, however, you lose some of that advantage if you tilt them. But, if you don't have the height, it is one solution.

I have done several installations where I have put the impeller housing and motor beside the cyclone where floor space wasn't an issue. That saved a bit of headroom. I have also shortened the drop bin height, as shown in that other thread that Chris has put a link to.

Nothing at all uncommon with running cyclones "tilted". We did it in many of the processing plants I worked in.

Cyclone.jpg