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  1. #16
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    My take is that I wouldn't do what you propose but let me expand on that as there is more to it. I would never wire a shed with the electricals behind internal walls because as sure as the sun rises in the East you will want to change it down the track. Put all the wiring in trays and conduit external on the walls and though it is not as neat it is something that you will be thankful for in years to come. For lights put in unswitched three pin roses and all the lights plug in and can be moved, changed etc as needed in the future. Doing things this way means an electrician could install an extra power point in about ten minutes flat instead of trying to access the system behind walls and lights can simply be added via double adaptors, longer or shorter leads etc. I would put in more roses than you think you need for additional lights later on.
    CHRIS

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Man View Post
    This is awesome stuff, and for someone like myself who is currently fitting out the work space, I have a simple question - given that my electrics are yet to be wired up, is there a way the controllers can be sold so they're ready to be wired up inside a wall by an electrician, and thus installed inside the wall as opposed to on it as an addition?
    Hi midnight’
    Putting the controls behind the wall covering would defeat 2 of the primary design objectives of making the system FLEXIBLE and UPGRADABLE?
    The system was also designed to be ‘attractive’ (to a workshop level anyway ) as shown here...

    FB0E49CC-F412-4748-B6C0-8C297FE47A8D.jpg

    ...... you can fix the controller to the wall beside a standard power point, plug it into that standard power point and plug the machine into the controller. We can also supply a piggy back lead so that the LV ‘wall wart’ can plug in to the same power point.
    Also, as shown here....

    A8C7605D-6FDF-434E-AEC6-FE70A1966856.jpg

    ...... and as Chis alluded, you might start with a need for a manual control at that power point and then upgrade to an automatic at a later date?
    a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletty View Post
    Hi midnight’
    Putting the controls behind the wall covering would defeat 2 of the primary design objectives of making the system FLEXIBLE and UPGRADABLE?
    The system was also designed to be ‘attractive’ (to a workshop level anyway ) as shown here...

    FB0E49CC-F412-4748-B6C0-8C297FE47A8D.jpg

    ...... you can fix the controller to the wall beside a standard power point, plug it into that standard power point and plug the machine into the controller. We can also supply a piggy back lead so that the LV ‘wall wart’ can plug in to the same power point.
    Also, as shown here....

    A8C7605D-6FDF-434E-AEC6-FE70A1966856.jpg

    ...... and as Chis alluded, you might start with a need for a manual control at that power point and then upgrade to an automatic at a later date?
    Or move a machine. Workshops evolve...it is the eleventh commandment.

    EDIT, I might have mislead here, moving machines where the power source is changed was my intended meaning. Moving a machine and using the same power outlet was never the intended meaning which some people apparently read it as. I hope that has cleared it up.
    CHRIS

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletty View Post
    We can also supply a piggy back lead so that the LV ‘wall wart’ can plug in to the same power point.
    How difficult would it be to source a little transformer unit that can be included inside the controller box and connected to the active and neutral terminals of the GPO in the control box? Wouldn't that be much neater and more user-friendly than a piggy-back plug? Less wires hanging around means less to get caught on something and one less thing to go wrong.
    I got sick of sitting around doing nothing - so I took up meditation.

  6. #20
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    It's really pleasing to see these developments as every little thing that contributes to improving dust control in the shed helps. I like the way they have been kept relatively simple and they look to be very well made.

    I especially like the manual/auto switching capability so the ducting can presumably be used for general workshop venting if required?

    I assume the manual and auto switches on the same controller are in parallel so that either will open the gate? Does that mean the manual switch can be left in an open state? This would not be so good in a place like a mens shed where most fellas would not check if the manual switch was left on or not. It looks like there is some kind of LED light - does that show general on/off state of the gate or just that the controller is plugged in and turned on?

    At our mens shed the blokes using machines might remember to open the gates but often don't bother to check if the DC is on so auto starting the DC is essential for these environments. I see you are working on this, are you going for a remote connection or does your setup require a a connecting wire back to the DC?

    The need to plug in two 240v plugs is a slight nuisance, any reason the LV was not included inside the box? Very small low cost 12V power supplies are readily available on the web that should fit inside that box. [EDIT]I see Doug beat me to this while I was writing my post

    What about ducting systems that have intermediate gates on sub-trunk lines. If these are not open or closed then auto gates on the machine are not going to help.

    The gates look to be really well made I reckon you could probably readily sell the gates (without the electrical bits) as a stand alone manually operated product. Maybe sell the electrical bits as an upgrade?

    I can see these automated gates being really useful in places like mens sheds and for folks with deeper wallets. However, most weekend warriors will still balk at the (what I so consider a reasonable) cost. It's hard enough to convince them that they should invest at minimum on a modified DC3 ($400) and 6" ducting let alone the extra cost required for half a dozen auto gates gates. Even someone as nutty and dust conscious as myself would balk at the cost (I have 14 gates in my ducting) but depending on the price I would consider maybe buying the stand alone gates as they look so well made.

    Budget conscious DIYers may wish to consider initially using a low budget solution like a pressure switch (see Making sure your DC is on). These pressure switches can be arranged to auto detect if the relevant and any intermediate gates are open, and the DC is on without any hard wire or remote connection back to the DC. We have been using these pressure switches on 4 machines at our mens shed for nearly 3 years and it has really helped. Evidence that they are working can be clearly seen as the machines that do not have a pressure switch fitted usually have more dust around them than those that do. In the mens shed the pressure switches do have a manual override but it can only be accessed through a tiny hole in the switch box with a paper clip and you have to know its there.

    Anyway good luck with this venture - I will definitely be promoting this to the mens shed I visit to consult on dust control. Will you be setting up some sort of a website I can direct them to?

  7. #21
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    Good idea but having a loose squirt that requires you to find another GPO is a serious failure. As a minimum the GPO should be a double so that the squirt can be plugged in at the outlet with the machine.

  8. #22
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    Bob, as mentioned in the first post our website should be up and running hopefully later this week. The discount offered to forum members will not be offered on the website unless four or more are supplied in a single order. This system instead of being looked at as an automatic blast gate could be looked as dust extraction system management and I would present it that way to Men's Sheds.
    CHRIS

  9. #23
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    Thank you for the support Gents. In response to the question re the separate LV supply, it was driven by several factors including cost (wall warts are remarkably cheap when bought in bulk), complexity (in isolating LV from HV inside the box) and, very importantly, to maintain upgradability in that the MANUAL CONTROLLER has the LV input only.
    Bob, wrt Men’s’ Sheds, the ones we have spoken to have all expressed interest in MANUAL controllers for floor sweeps and clean-up stations and AUTOMATIC ONLY for machinery for the very reasons you have stated. The general consensus of the sheds we have spoken to is to have those 2 controller styles and to not have the DC auto start function. Schools however have expressed preference for MANUAL and AUTO ONLY controllers but do want the auto start function. This possibly reflects a different proportion of hand tool work in schools.
    I personally have mostly AUTO AND MANUAL so that I can use the dust port manually for any housekeeping needs.
    Bohdan, yes, a double GPO is always a preferred option which is why the piggy back lead is only offered as an option. Whether this is a “serious failure” or not is yet to be shown? In my case, and as shown in many earlier posts, I have 6 machines on casters that are moved to the centre of the shop and connected to a (15A) plug and 150mm overhead flex for use. The ABG system thus allows ONE controller and gate to automatically operate for all 6 machines.
    a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletty View Post
    Bob, wrt Men’s’ Sheds, the ones we have spoken to have all expressed interest in MANUAL controllers for floor sweeps and clean-up stations and AUTOMATIC ONLY for machinery for the very reasons you have stated. The general consensus of the sheds we have spoken to is to have those 2 controller styles and to not have the DC auto start function. Schools however have expressed preference for MANUAL and AUTO ONLY controllers but do want the auto start function.
    You have to be very careful when seeking input from the general public. You need look no further than President Trump and BREXIT to see that the vast majority of people world-wide have no idea what they are voting for until they see the reality of the end result
    I got sick of sitting around doing nothing - so I took up meditation.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletty View Post
    Thank you for the support Gents. In response to the question re the separate LV supply, it was driven by several factors including cost (wall warts are remarkably cheap when bought in bulk), complexity (in isolating LV from HV inside the box) and, very importantly, to maintain upgradability in that the MANUAL CONTROLLER has the LV input only.
    It looks like there is already HV and LV inside the box?

    FWIW LV power supplies are also cheap as chips when bought in bulk. I do use old odd wall warts that cost nothing in many of my electrical/electronics but that's not my main point. Existing wall warts can also be a easily installed inside a box.
    IMG_4291.jpg
    In this example the 9V Wall wart powers an Aduino and unless portability is needed this is how most of my LV projects are done. In continuous high current draw situations heat dissipation may be an issue but I assume any high current draw only occurs when opening and closing the gates?

    Bob, wrt Men’s’ Sheds, the ones we have spoken to have all expressed interest in MANUAL controllers for floor sweeps and clean-up stations and AUTOMATIC ONLY for machinery for the very reasons you have stated. The general consensus of the sheds we have spoken to is to have those 2 controller styles and to not have the DC auto start function. Schools however have expressed preference for MANUAL and AUTO ONLY controllers but do want the auto start function. This possibly reflects a different proportion of hand tool work in schools.
    Makes Sense.

    This system instead of being looked at as an automatic blast gate could be looked as dust extraction system management and I would present it that way to Men's Sheds.
    Good idea.

  12. #26
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCArcher View Post
    Basically, yes. If your router motor (I'm assuming CNC router) is connected via an ABG controller then the blastgate will be open whenever the motor is running. Tying into G-code
    I should have explained that the g-code would operate a relay output in a MASSO CNC controller. (5v ttl). So you have a relay contact to operate one of your manual controllers.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Arie.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCArcher View Post
    Basically, yes. If your router motor (I'm assuming CNC router) is connected via an ABG controller then the blastgate will be open whenever the motor is running. Tying into G-code
    I should have explained that the g-code would operate a relay output in a MASSO CNC controller. (5v ttl). So you have a relay contact to operate one of your manual controllers.
    Router motor is a 3 phase spindle controlled by a VFD.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Arie.

  14. #28
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    Jan 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breezy View Post
    I should have explained that the g-code would operate a relay output in a MASSO CNC controller. (5v ttl). So you have a relay contact to operate one of your manual controllers.
    Router motor is a 3 phase spindle controlled by a VFD.
    You could probably adapt a manual controller fairly easily but to be honest, you don't need it. I will look at a driver/interface for this application but it will be somewhere in the future.
    While I was typing this my brain kept thinking about it and I've worked out what I need to do. Won't be straight away but I will knock up a prototype
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    https://autoblastgates.com.au

  15. #29
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    This looks cool. Am I missing something? Any thoughts about how to integrate a master-switch slave so you could turn on the *extractor* when you turn on a machine (and this device opens the gate). No point in having the noisy extractor on all the time, sucking against closed gates.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyricnz View Post
    This looks cool. Am I missing something? Any thoughts about how to integrate a master-switch slave so you could turn on the *extractor* when you turn on a machine (and this device opens the gate). No point in having the noisy extractor on all the time, sucking against closed gates.
    hi lyric, it will be better described in the website which we are still constructing but, in the meantime, YES, auto start of the dust collector will be available and we are currently trialling beta prototypes .......in my shed
    When this feature is available, starting any machine will open its relevant gate/s AND start the dust collector.
    We are also beta trialling a dust collector bin level sensor which will alert you that the dust collector bin has reached a level PRESET BY YOU. The sensor mounts to the bin but the alarm can be placed anywhere which is certainly a plus for me as my dust collector is in a sound proof closet and out of sight!
    a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!

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