Thread: Auto on dust extractor?

... Or a remote controlled power point with clicker!

Well, bugger me, google is good at finding stuff.

Gregory Mach sell industrial solutions and since I'm not a billionaire it rules me out..... BUT search for "remote controlled power point" and there at least 190 offerings.

Office works, a 3 point job! For FOURTY BUX! Yeah baby! http://www.officeworks.com.au/retail...ables/JAPT9723 and one on eBay that looks even more schmicko.

Not automatic, but I can carry the clicker in my pocket easily enough.

All that sort of control is easily doable, really easy if the machine is switched on via a relay/contactor, a set of aux. contacts to switch on DC when machine is turned on, an off delay timer to leave running for x time, a bit of wiring, maybe another contactor if multiple machines are to turn DC on, basic stuff for a commercial sparky.
I think Felder do a gadget that allows 8 machines to trigger a DC, not sure about timer tho, but still even if it doesn't a timer is not hard to do.
A few dollars to spend tho, your plug in RF controlled PP would definately be cheaper, if you still wanted the off delay that would be doable as well.



Pete

Hi Guys:

I have one of the Felder auto-start boxes. It works like this:

- 1 small blue blox (with the magic inside) which can be hooked up to eight machines for auto-starting.

- Each machine has a little electro-magnetic "donut" which sits around the power wire of each machine and goes back to the blue box.

- The box controls a contactor which completes the circuit the dusty is on.

- The box also has a delayed stop; so the dusty turns on whenever you turn on a machine; and then runs for 10 seconds after you turn the machine off.

So, you're up for the blue box (I bought mine about 7 years ago and it cost between $100-200), the little donuts ($30ish each), a contactor (I forget the cost), and the time for a good sparky to wire it all up (say about $500). It's not cheap, but it is a one-time install.

I think Felder also makes a single power box which allows one machine to be auto-started, for a lot less money as it a plug and play solution. Not sure how much tho.

You need to use the magic words 'master slave' in your search.

Remote controlled powerpoints pop up at Aldi about twice a year for about $20. Typically something like three or four single adaptors and a remote, sometimes internal only, sometimes externally rated.

See also the shelves at Bunnies.
http://www.bunnings.com.au/kambrook-...ntrol_p7030054

Or Jaycar - they used to list a master/slave unit by the German Kemo electronics company, but currently listed as out of stock. (available on ebay, search Kemo M103N, $20).

How would they go with a PM75 15 amp unit?

Those prices look fantastic but such solutions only work for 10A dusties. Are there any off-the-shelf solutions for 15A and above? My contactor is 32A, but it is controlling a large 3Ph machine.

I guess the beauty of the Felder solution is that it is independent of phase and amperage, as a contactor of choice can be attached. But I recall the wiring costs are what hurt the most. It would be nice if some "Kambrook" style solution could be had for 15A dusties, and which does not cost the earth.

At the launch of Powermatic machines at Carbatec late last year, the Powermatic rep was praising the remote start system for his dusty. I think this could be retrofitted which means that it could, theoretically, be installed on a non-Powermatic machine. Has anyone investigated this option at all? Wonder what it costs?

You won't find off the shelf solutions cheap because once you're over 10 amps, that's considered industrial with industrial pricing to match.

You'll have to wire in contactors to suit your needs if you want to keep it cheap but slave a load larger than 10 amps. A quick hit of sparkydirect suggests that a 240 volt coil, 40 amp contactor will cost you about $30.

EDIT - Oh, and you'll need an off time delay if you want the dusty to keep running for a few minutes

Hi Evanism
Have a look at

http://www.grngate.com/?page_id=14

These are Hobbyist versions of Eco gate
They come in 2 & 4 gate 4" gate versions at an affordable price?????

I have one of the original 8 station green Box Ecogate systems which I have had for approx 15 years and it has never missed a beat. The advantage of the commercial system is that you can use larger 5" 6"& 8" gates.
If you only wish to use 4" gates then the basic Home system should suit.
Note that it has the delay in Dust collector shut off to clear the ducting that you require.
Cheers
Ron

Originally Posted by Evanism

... Or a remote controlled power point with clicker!

For me, this is absolutely the way to go. You can choose how long you want it to run for. In fact, I almost never use the tool triggering on my Festool vac - just a remote startup. This becomes particularly important depending on the length of any ducting in your system - which I have on the FT vac.

What's more, it's a very cheap affordable solution. From remote sockets I run (in the shed):
DE
Shop Vac
Drill Press
Router table
Band Saw
Fan
Aircon
Radio
Heater
anything that I fancy at the time

Originally Posted by ronboult

They come in 2 & 4 gate 4" gate versions at an affordable price?????

[ STARTER SYSTEM W/ 4 GATES GG1000A US$489.00

A DIYer would be far better off dust wise to put those $ towards a 6" DC system
The 6" systems are well and truly out most DIYers price range.
4" gates also means a max flow of ~400 cfm - definitely not recommended.

Note that it has the delay in Dust collector shut off to clear the ducting that you require.

The delay that these systems provide is usually too short. The operator needs to be able to adjust the delay from a few minutes (for a single pass on a table saw) to many minutes (after a mornings thicknessing) depending on why they have been doing.

BobL, what flow would a 1900cfm 3hp 15amp dusty have with 6inch?

You could leave a dust collector running for an awfully long time for the cost of those automatic blast gates!

Originally Posted by jenno

BobL, what flow would a 1900cfm 3hp 15amp dusty have with 6inch?

Just in case you are unaware there are 3 semi-contradictory specifications here.

If a 240V DC is drawing 15A this makes it nominally 240V x 15A = 3600 W = 5HP.
If a DC motor is rated @ 3HP this is equivalent to 2200 W which means at 240V it draws 2200/240 = 9.2A (this is the most likely scenario)
The 15A specification is normally used because even a 3HP will use high startup currents but other than that a 3HP DC uses no more than ~10A.

The claimed flow of 1900 CFM is a single point measurement in the middle of the impeller outlet, i.e. no bags/filters and no ducting and the inlet of the impeller is wide open.

What flow is possible depends on the impeller size and design.
Most 3HP DCs use either a 12, 13 or 14" impeller. As the impeller size increases the current drawn and pressure generated should increase.
I can't be more specific about impeller size and flow because the design will also affect the flow.
Most impellers used on 3HP systems can generate ~10" of WC pressure then using this diagram start at the X-axis find the 10" line and trace that until it crosses the 6" line and the go across to the Y-axis at that point and you will see that is a theoretical flow of ~1250 CFM. A bigger impeller might generate 12" of WC so that will be correspondingly more. It's extremely difficult to get impellers to generate much more than this and increasingly difficult to maintain it across a ducting system
Then it's all downhill from there, dirty filters, leaks, junctions, choked machine outlets etc will drop it further.
Generally it's a tough ask and requires a lot of vigilance to keep a 3HP system above the recommended 1000 CFM flow rate.
Something like a 4HP BP cyclone with a 15" impeller, 6" ducting and taking and able grinder to machines to allow them to breathe is about the only way to be certain to stay above the 1000 CFM threshold.