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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopblock View Post
    He says it's good for sanding but not so much use for chips. Might be why the $99 special burned out. I will 3d print a bell mouth for it.

    I am now presuming I'll need to make a dust collection enclosure for the lathe.
    Nothing really works for chip scatter from a lathe. The best you can hope for with chips is to reduce the extent of the scatter.
    Even with a 4HP DC and a bell mouth hood the extent of chip scatter only reduced by about a factor of two. This is still worth while because it does mean that instead of sweeping or vacuuming up a semi circle with about a 3m radius its down to about 1.5m.

    This is what I use to vacuum up chips - it's much faster than a vacuum cleaner.
    A use for 90mm stormwater pipe in workshop dust control
    BTW I have upgraded it to a 100mm PVC pipe.

    Unless you're talking about slipping over on the floor, chip scatter is not a health issue. In fact any dust you can see is not a health issue - it's the stuff you cannot see that is likely to be a health issue. To capture that invisible dust requires about 800 to 1000 CFM - that's something that's not going to happen with a vacuum cleaner (eg 100 CFM)

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyro View Post
    Oh I didn't realise you already have a lathe... yeah lathes are difficult to deal with for dust, same with the bandsaw, so you may as well go big DC now. The good news is if you get it right you can forget about masks. Also woodworking with most of the dust and chips cleaned up for you is generally a much more pleasant experience

    I have a question for Bob, hopefully not unrelated to the topic: I noticed Bunnings lately is full of "M Class" (EU) shop vacs, somewhat cheaper than Festool but much more expensive than your stock standard shop vac, mostly around the $1k mark depending on size. Bosch, Karcher, Makita. Do you have an opinion on those? I'm obviously talking for use with handheld power tools and general shop use, not for machinery..
    M Class vacs are indeed better than L class, but, without going into my usual rant about vacs and if you don't need mobile power tool operation eg building site, I'd be putting the $1500 towards a better DC. It is possible to deal with most power tool dust via a DC but its not possible to deal with most machine generate dust using a vac. The cheapest least dusty vacuuming system for shed is a reticulated Vac system using 50mm PVC ducting and a $200 shop vac located outside a shed.

    When we had our Jarrah floors sanded in one half of our house about 3 years ago the sanding guys used a range of fans/vacs etc including a 50L Nilfisk M class industrial vac they used on their 4 x 150 grit pad ROS, and I was very impressed with its performance BUT it did cost ~$2500 - clearly the right thing to use in that situation. They still wore masks and were rigorous about keeping doors closed etc. When they finished there was no hint of fine dust in the other rooms of the house . Full story here. Dust Concentration Measurements
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    M Class vacs are indeed better than L class, but, without going into my usual rant about vacs and if you don't need mobile power tool operation eg building site, I'd be putting the $1500 towards a better DC. It is possible to deal with most power tool dust via a DC but its not possible to deal with most machine generate dust using a vac. The cheapest least dusty vacuuming system for shed is a reticulated Vac system using 50mm PVC ducting and a $200 shop vac located outside a shed.

    When we had our Jarrah floors sanded in one half of our house about 3 years ago the sanding guys used a range of fans/vacs etc including a 50L Nilfisk M class industrial vac they used on their 4 x 150 grit pad ROS, and I was very impressed with its performance BUT it did cost ~$2500 - clearly the right thing to use in that situation. They still wore masks and were rigorous about keeping doors closed etc. When they finished there was no hint of fine dust in the other rooms of the house . Full story here. Dust Concentration Measurements
    Thanks Bob
    With that underlined bit, how does that work?
    I bought the smallest DC on the market, that compact 1100W unit from Timbecon I linked before, I tried connecting it to various things and it just doesn't work. When I connect it to the milescraft router shroud, the shroud just cant deal with the pressure, it started to collapse in itself and eventually started vibrating and making a loud sound like a foghorn, my wife came out of the house running
    When I connect the DC to things with shopvac ports the DC sucks its own hose against itself and feels like the whole thing is going to collapse in itself. And that's just a small DC, imagine if I had something more powerful.
    Is there some trick to it? Do I need to reduce pressure somehow?

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyro View Post
    Thanks Bob
    With that underlined bit, how does that work?
    I bought the smallest DC on the market, that compact 1100W unit from Timbecon I linked before, I tried connecting it to various things and it just doesn't work. When I connect it to the milescraft router shroud, the shroud just cant deal with the pressure, it started to collapse in itself and eventually started vibrating and making a loud sound like a foghorn, my wife came out of the house running
    When I connect the DC to things with shopvac ports the DC sucks its own hose against itself and feels like the whole thing is going to collapse in itself. And that's just a small DC, imagine if I had something more powerful.
    Is there some trick to it? Do I need to reduce pressure somehow?

    Note I said "most" power tools. Routers especially won't work. The sorts of power tools that will work are those that have a built in fan, as its the fan that is the rate limiting step in the overall flow. As long as the DC can suck the stuff away that is presented to it by the fan it will work.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Nothing really works for chip scatter from a lathe. The best you can hope for with chips is to reduce the extent of the scatter.
    I was hoping if I put some sort of enclosure around (?possibly fabric) it, that would limit the spread of chips.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopblock View Post
    I was hoping if I put some sort of enclosure around (?possibly fabric) it, that would limit the spread of chips.
    I've seen setups that do that, ie surround the operator with tall HD curtain - the most important location for such a barrier is behind the operator as that is where many of the chips end up.
    BUT
    That then impedes the free flow of fresh air from behind the operator , across the workpiece and into the hood behind the lathe and may even create a partial dead space around the operators head.

  8. #22
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    Μaybe a large household fan behind the lathe operator? And pointing to an open garage door.
    You can deal with the mess on the floor later, the main thing is not to breathe dust.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyro View Post
    Μaybe a large household fan behind the lathe operator? And pointing to an open garage door.
    You can deal with the mess on the floor later, the main thing is not to breathe dust.
    If you are doing to sweep up the chips then a larger DC can deal with the fine dust.

  10. #24
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    I prefer to keep the mess contained within the workshop rather than cleaning it up from all over the driveway. Itís amazing how far it can spread.
    All my machines are on wheels and against walls. Some I can use against the walls, others I have to wheel out. Even with all the DE and DC hooked up, its always a floor clean at the end of the job. Those walls do a great job of containing what gets away from the DE and DC.

  11. #25
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    So should I be keeping the cardboard from the bandsaw box in anticipation for acoustic insulation for a dc enclosure or is it not that effective?

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopblock View Post
    So should I be keeping the cardboard from the bandsaw box in anticipation for acoustic insulation for a dc enclosure or is it not that effective?
    Cardboard is not very effective. Acoustic isolation of an enclosure so as to prevent sound escaping is best done with something thick and dense eg not much sound escapes a thick concrete bunker.
    If you have to work inside that environment eg a shed, an absorber or scatterer is desirable or the sound pressure levels can become very high. Carpet, foam or many many layers of cardboard will help but these can turn into dust generating fire hazard. The alternative is to empty a scattering/reflective surface, even corrugated iron works.
    In terms of enclosure cladding one has to be careful with stuff like COLORBOND as it has to be well supported (extra stiffness fames) or it becomes drummy and can easily transmit sound sound.

  13. #27
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    At the moment I'm thinking of two layers of plasterboard on metal studs sandwiched with acoustic batts. Not sure how I will deal with the door though.

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopblock View Post
    At the moment I'm thinking of two layers of plasterboard on metal studs sandwiched with acoustic batts. Not sure how I will deal with the door though.
    I assume your enclosure is inside the shed? If so the plasterboard acoustic batt combo will be fine. Door needs to have a really good all round seal. Preferably set into a frame like a room door but don't forget to include a frame/seal at the bottom. Sliding doors or spurs flay against and opening are harder to seal. If you are enclosing outside seal does not need to be as tight.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopblock View Post
    * buy an air monitoring tool - Dylos pro ($$$!)
    I have been using a Dylos Pro for several years and find it very useful for measuring the effect various workshop activities and changes to ventilation and dust extraction setups have on air quality.

    I routinely run it connected to my laptop to collect time stamped data at the rate of one reading per minute for PM-2.5 and PM-0.5. I can watch the results in graph form in real time using the Dylos software, and the data files are straight forward text files which can be opened in Excel or similar. The Dylos Pro can log data for subsequent download without being connected to a computer, the only limitation of which is it does not provide clock times, only time internals.

    It runs off 9-12V DC with a 500mA minimum power supply required and 1A recommended. The reason for mentioning this is that when I purchased my Dylos Pro in Australia it was supplied with a multi-voltage plugpack (with a slider switch for 3, 4.5, 6, 9, 12V) but there was no mention on the Dylos or in the instructions as to what the input voltage was supposed to be. An email to Dylos in the USA provided the answer.

    Here's a sample of the Dylos text file. The values shown on the device itself are 100x smaller than the per cubic foot results in the text file, ie the first line of data would appear as 567, 32 on the Dylos' LCD screen.

    -------------------------
    Dylos Logger v 3.1.0.0
    Unit: DC1100
    Date/Time: 01/06/21 05:05
    -------------------------
    Particles per cubic foot
    -------------------------
    Date/Time, Small, Large
    01/06/21 05:06, 56700, 3200
    01/06/21 05:07, 54900, 2800
    01/06/21 05:08, 51100, 2800
    01/06/21 05:09, 52300, 3200
    01/06/21 05:10, 56100, 3400
    01/06/21 05:11, 54700, 3300
    01/06/21 05:12, 55400, 3100
    01/06/21 05:13, 52000, 2800
    01/06/21 05:14, 55800, 3300
    01/06/21 05:15, 49900, 2300

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by emmjay View Post
    Here's a sample of the Dylos text file. The values shown on the device itself are 100x smaller than the per cubic foot results in the text file, ie the first line of data would appear as 567, 32 on the Dylos' LCD screen.

    -------------------------
    Dylos Logger v 3.1.0.0
    Unit: DC1100
    Date/Time: 01/06/21 05:05
    -------------------------
    Particles per cubic foot
    -------------------------
    Date/Time, Small, Large
    01/06/21 05:06, 56700, 3200
    Thanks for the info about Dylos.
    The logged value is the correct value? 56700 seems like a lot of particles per cubic foot. Is that bad?

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