Thread: Clearview Cyclone

Yes, a $300 solution was cheap. The difference between 50 and 60 Hz on the Clear Vue is quite remarkable. I could not measure airflow (no instruments), but the noise level at 50 Hz was half that at 60 Hz. I know noise might not be a great indicator, but just sticking my hand in an inlet to feel the airflow was enough to convince me that running at 60 Hz produces a big difference in air flow/velocity.

Just got a 10k quote for 3 phase, so single phase it is..

even then I,m still up for 5k to upgrade the switch panels and wiring to get enough power out there.

Originally Posted by MatMann

Just got a 10k quote for 3 phase, so single phase it is..

even then I,m still up for 5k to upgrade the switch panels and wiring to get enough power out there.

I have moved houses five times in the last five years. Every house I have moved in to has inadequate power for the appliances which are common-place these days. Inside the house is hopeless. Most cannot cope with a microwave and a deep fryer on at the same time, and if they can handle that then add in a dishwasher and its game over! Out in the she it has been generally worse.

The worst one was a double 10 amp powerpoint on the garage wall and another on the ceiling for the door opener. I had to hang a powerboard from the ceiling to be able to do anything. but it was the same circuit as all the rest of the house so plug in a welder or a triton saw or router while someone is using power in the kitchen and eveyones computers and tv's died. This house was only 4 years old so you would think it would have been wired up for the current age, but it had less power points than some of the over 30 year-old houses I have lived in.

My current house is the best so far. Power in the house is inadequate and I have a lead running in through a window from the garage, which has its own sub board, to help out in the house. In the shed there is two 10 amp circuits and one 15 amp circuit with one socket. There is another 15 amp socket in the meter box. I have more power leads running around the place than I would like, but it works.

Real estate people cant seem to understand why the first place I look at a potential new house is in the meter box.

Doug

Matt, (and Doug),

Matt, talk to Chris before you do anything. You don't want to spend loot needlessly. I'd be inclined to get a second opinion on how to supply power to the shop. $5K sounds excessive. My electrician quoted me an entirely new 15 Amp circuit (over a reasonably long distance) for far, far less.

Doug, Sometimes the problem is the supply to the house (at least in part). I have a Clear Vue hooked up through a standard 10 Amp point and a VFD. For a week or two, no problem. Then one day I switched on the cyclone and then the vertical sander. The cyclone (not the circuit breaker, the VFD) tripped off on low power when I powered up the sander, which draws high power on start up. This happened when I was home alone and no other appliances were in use. I raced around and turned of the fridges (gas hot water). Same problem. An hour later, no problem with switching on the sander whilst the cyclone was running. The problem comes and goes but seems to be worst in the morning.

I am no electrician, but this sounds to me as if I am not getting my full quota of power to the power board at some times, rather than household appliances overloading the circuits.

Luckily, the cyclone has a soft start, so if I start the sander first, and then the cyclone, I never have a problem.

Cheerio!

Originally Posted by John Samuel

I am no electrician, but this sounds to me as if I am not getting my full quota of power to the power board at some times, rather than household appliances overloading the circuits.

Supply to the house can be an issue for some devices - we had a rouge dishwasher that would not start unless it was supplied with precisely 240V or greater - supply to my house varies between 230 and 245V. It was not a power issue but an electronics issue on the control board, but replacing that was going to cost more that it was worth. Working this out took many trips back and forth (with the bloody dishwasher) to the dishwasher service centre about two suburbs away. We had just about every Email appliance engineer in the country scratching their heads over the problem. In the end it was a Physics Professor at work that diagnosed the problem. I was able to verify this using a variable step up/down transformer (VARIAC) and ran the dishwasher for a few years at 250V. After a while it would not even run at 250 V and needed 255V so I got rid of it.

I have 2 independent power lines to my shed (20A and 45A).
Inside the shed I have 3 x 15A and 2 x 10 A circuits, plus a lighting circuit.

The 15A devices are compressor, welder, TS and DC, but all 4 are never used at the same time.
The compressor and TS are on their own 15A lines - I often leave the compressor on for the whole day.
The DC and Welder are on the same 15A line but I never use them simultaneously. When welding the last thing I want is sticky welding fumes clogging up the DC filters so I weld under a fume hood with a dedicated exhaust fan connected to the other 10A line.

So the worst combination would be TS and DC running and the compressor kicks in.
My air con (AC) is on one of the 10A lines - Its a waste of energy/money using the AC and the DC at the same time as the DC vents the shed way faster than the AC can cool it.
The shed is not that big (42 m^2) and well insulated so the AC cools it down pretty quickly when I turn it back on again.

The welding bay exhaust fan is about 1/3rd of the DC capacity so if it is a small welding job I do sometimes weld, exhaust and leave the AC running and the compressor might then also kick in. But if I am going to be welding for a while I will turn off the AC.

Originally Posted by John Samuel

Doug, Sometimes the problem is the supply to the house (at least in part). I have a Clear Vue hooked up through a standard 10 Amp point and a VFD. For a week or two, no problem. Then one day I switched on the cyclone and then the vertical sander. The cyclone (not the circuit breaker, the VFD) tripped off on low power when I powered up the sander, which draws high power on start up. This happened when I was home alone and no other appliances were in use. I raced around and turned of the fridges (gas hot water). Same problem. An hour later, no problem with switching on the sander whilst the cyclone was running. The problem comes and goes but seems to be worst in the morning.

I am no electrician, but this sounds to me as if I am not getting my full quota of power to the power board at some times, rather than household appliances overloading the circuits.

Hi John.

Thanks for your input, but I think your circumstances are a bit different from mine.

Maybe we should start another thread about power in the shed, we have gotten a long way from cyclones.

I have two 10 amp circuits and a 15 amp circuit in he shed, all on a power sub-board located in the shed. There is also a 15 amp outlet in the main meter box. This will run any combination of the machines that I may want to run simultaneously without ever tripping out the power.

In the house, there are two 10 amp circuits. It is fairly easy to overload one of the two circuits in the house with day to day kitchen appliances. This can occur whether or not power is being used in the shed..

All the power comes in through the one feed to the main power board. Since this feed can provide enough to run, say, a 15 amp bandsaw, a 10 amp dusty, lights, exhaust fans, computer and speakers for music, possibly a couple of 2000 watt heaters in the winter, then surely when that load is not being used there should be enough power coming in through the feed to run anything on the two 10 amp circuits in the house, but just a few appliances on at the same time trips it out. Similar to your situation, John, we may get away with a certain combination of appliances today which will blow the breaker tomorrow. But because this seems to be independent of whether a massive power load is being consumed in the shed or not, to me would rule out a lack of available power from the feed from the mains. You may be right in your own circumstances but I do not think it is the case for me.

At my own home in Queensland, which I have not lived in for over 5 years, an electrician frined arranged for the local power authority to upgrade the feed to my house as it was not sufficient to power the sub-board he installed under my house. I did not know it but there are a number of different grades for the power feeds. My friend used to work for the power supplier and arranged for this to be upgraded free of charge. I am not sure if everyone can get it upgraded free of charge if they need more power or if he called in some favours for me, but if you feel that you are not getting enough power to the meter box to support your needs, it may pay to consult an electrician and ask.

Doug

Thanks for the info, Doug. That's good to know.

I have figured out that if I start the cyclone with all blast gates closed, it only draws about half the Amps compared with when a gate is open. That way it seems I avoid tripping the VFD regardless of which machine I start first.

$5k is a lot but without seeing what the full scope of the work needed i think its a bit hard from a keyboard to price a job.

I need to update 2 power boards, replace the main feed to the house run some new 15a lines for the rear of the house then in the shed i need at least 50a usable at once (2x20a machines AC Lights etc).
ohh and dig more trenches

I'm still waiting on the final costing from my sparky, so we'll see how that goes.
I have to replace the mains water from the meter and replace the hot water service which has been costed at $5500(without the hot water service itself), and thats 1/2 the job the sparky has to do

This house is a hodge podge of shifty dodgy stuff, all owner/builder stuff in the 70's. The wife is intent on staying so i may as well make the best of it, it's only money......

back on topic tho.. is there anyone in Melb with a clearvue system?

Hi all. I haven't been here for a while and wasn't aware of this thread until it was brought to my attention by John S. I don't know who I have spoken to on the phone v's user names here so if I have duplicated any emails or PM's just let me know. The website site was renovated recently but it is plain now that the electrical side of things has not been addressed sufficiently and we need to sort that out PDQ, like tomorrow. The story is that all the motors are 3kw / 3 phase for every installation. What varies is that the motor is multi voltage and can be wired at installation for either 230V OR 415 V three phase. Then we have the following choices..

230V - to use this choice we supply a variable frequency drive which supplies 3 phase at the standard voltage available out of a normal 15 amp power point. The VFD also allows the motor to be run at 3450 RPM and importantly it gives a soft start and lowers the current requirements. We have measured the 1800 on start up and it peaks at about 16 amps for about 1 second with all gates open.

415V - This can be used with either a VFD or without. if you choose to not use a VFD then the motor runs at 2850 RPM, with a VFD the motor can be run at 3450 RPM.

Of the two choices I can only think of two Maxes running at 415/2850 and one 1800 doing the same.

The back story to all this is that in the US the motor runs from a 60HZ source at 3450 RPM. In Oz if we did not use a VFD we would be turning the motor at 2850 RPM. The Max was in fact designed to overcome this problem when CV were looking at OS sales where the rest of the world generally uses 50HZ and they realised that the air flow would not be up to their specification so they invented the Max with the larger 16" impeller and larger inlet. This meant that the Max would flow at least the same numbers at 2850 RPM as the 1800 flowed at 3450 RPM.

The Americans took one look at it and started to buy and run the Max at 3450 RPM and had enormous air flow, in fact two or three gates can be open at one time. I recommend that if the Max is used with a VFD as most are then a duct be left open in the centre of the workshop to scrub the air while another duct is working from a machine. I have customers who have chosen to run both the Max and the 1800 at the lower RPM and both are very happy with the result and one is a commercial workshop. I have told them that if at any time they need more performance a VFD can be utilised but they have never come back to me. Apricot Tripper from this forum bought his Max before I was involved and he runs his at 2850 RPM as well.

The US government introduced legislation last year that effectively outlawed the Leeson motor that CV used and we used to import. We now use a 3KW Teco motor sourced and warranted in OZ. Wile a bit bigger than the Leeson this does have the advantage of local supply and support which is a big plus but not needed up to this time. We had one Leeson give issues but that was a local installation problem and it had to be rebuilt in Oz as no more were available from the US.

A bit of trivia, I recently sold four Maxes to Mongolia and some to Indonesia with more on the way to Mongolia shortly. These are used in coal testing laboratories for part of their test purposes. This same company can and do make their own dust extraction equipment but bang for the buck we do it a lot better at the scale they need. They also use them in Oz for the same purposes. It just isn't woodworking that requires dust control and other industries are starting to take notice. We also did an installation in WA for a commercial operator that primarily ventilates a purpose built sanding room which was a bit different. One of the people who worked on this one was a ventilation engineer who was very impressed with the finished result.

Thanks Chris, that"s alot of info and much appreciated

Originally Posted by d5k

No worries, give me a call if you are in the area. 0418 645 356

Cheers

Just thought I'd let everyone know that I have purchased the CV1800 from Chris.

Its basically up and running but still have to install the the various 6inch ducts. I have built a wooden tower to make the installation easier and to provide flexibility with positioning.

Overall I'm happy with the installation ...... and the quality of the ClearVue product.

I am not happy with the potential noise level and will be looking at other threads to determine the best approach to get the beast under control.

Photos to follow!

Warmtone,

The best 150 mm PVC prices i have found are at Total Eden. Total Eden - Water Solutions Including Treatment, Tanks & Pressure Pumps, Plumbing, Irrigation & Sprinklers

They have branches in all states except Tas and NT.

I have a written quote as follows:

6m lengths pipe $48.36 ... 45 degree bend F:F $12.46 ... Wye Junction F:F:F $18.50

For some info on sound reduction, this link may help ... https://www.woodworkforums.com/f200/s...lation-160052/

Originally Posted by John Samuel

Warmtone,

The best 150 mm PVC prices i have found are at Total Eden. Total Eden - Water Solutions Including Treatment, Tanks & Pressure Pumps, Plumbing, Irrigation & Sprinklers

They have branches in all states except Tas and NT.

I have a written quote as follows:

6m lengths pipe $48.36 ... 45 degree bend F:F $12.46 ... Wye Junction F:F:F $18.50

For some info on sound reduction, this link may help ... https://www.woodworkforums.com/f200/s...lation-160052/

Hi John thanks for the heads up. Total Eden are fairly close to where I live so that is where I'll go.