Thread: Clearview Cyclone

Originally Posted by d5k

I have just purchased and installed a Clearview Cyclone Max. Whilst I haven't had an opportunity to really test it yet and I am still putting the finished touches to the ducting, it seems like it will be fantastic.

What I will say though, is the service and followup by Chris (Mini) who is the agent for these machines is second to none and it really warms the heart to get the personal service and follow up that is very rare these days. This sort of service restores the faith!

David

Hi David I am considering an upgrade to my basic Jet extraction system. Considered the Jet vortex but decided it is probably no mans land fairly expensive but still a toy compared with the clear view.
Having started wood turning the fine dust is hard to capture from my puny 650 cfm machine.

For me the clear view is a bit hard to justify for my occasional usage and fairly expensive here compared with U S prices......... But undoubtedly a superb performer.

I would be interested to hear how this machine performs particularly with respect to filtration and noise. From all accounts it leaves standard dust extractors for dead vast suction power!

Most importantly the problematic fine dust is hopefully not recycled.
Good luck with th new installation!

Originally Posted by warmtone

Hi David I am considering an upgrade to my basic Jet extraction system. Considered the Jet vortex but decided it is probably no mans land fairly expensive but still a toy compared with the clear view.
Having started wood turning the fine dust is hard to capture from my puny 650 cfm machine.

For me the clear view is a bit hard to justify for my occasional usage and fairly expensive here compared with U S prices......... But undoubtedly a superb performer.

I would be interested to hear how this machine performs particularly with respect to filtration and noise. From all accounts it leaves standard dust extractors for dead vast suction power!

Most importantly the problematic fine dust is hopefully not recycled.
Good luck with th new installation!

Hi Warmtone

I also thought long and hard about the expense - especially for a hobby, but then I thought about the consequences of not getting rid of the fine dust and I knew it was affecting me more as I am getting older. I replaced 2 x 2hp Carbatec Dust Collectors with the Clearview and put in ducting around the shed and I have it connected to a combo planer/thicknesser, panel saw, router table, mitre saw, sander and also have a "gulp" at the lathe and the ability to use it as a vacuum. It certainly has some suction - I was sanding with a Makita Belt Sander on the weekend and whilst it had its own collection bag I had a gulp set up to pick up stray dust. I was emptying the bag straight into the suction, but let the bag slip and the whole thing went through the system and came out undamaged at the other end!

I have housed it outside my shed and so whilst still noisy - probably no worse than the ones I had before. I think the bulk of the noise is from the exhaust, but the big bonus is that I exhaust to the outside rather than inside the shed and I think that makes a huge difference - especially as far as dust goes. So far I am very happy with it.

Cheers

David

Originally Posted by warmtone

Hi David I am considering an upgrade to my basic Jet extraction system. Considered the Jet vortex but decided it is probably no mans land fairly expensive but still a toy compared with the clear view.
Having started wood turning the fine dust is hard to capture from my puny 650 cfm machine.

650 CFM sounds like a spec for a 1HP unit. If you are using 100 mm ducting you won't have 650 but more like 325 CFM.

The absolute mimimim HP needed to reach the minimum BP spec of 1000 cfm at 4000 FPM is
- using a 2 HP DC
- with a minimum of a 5" diam blower to filter bag connection
- removing the 4" DC ports and using 6" ducting for no more than a couple of metres
- modifying the collection port of machines to accept the 6" ducting
- no chip collectors in between the collection point and the impeller.

If you want to use longer ducting runs and/or put the DC outside the shed a minimum of 3HP is needed.

David,

Very interested to see how you connected up the combo thicknesser/jointer. Just installed a CV1800 myself, and this is the last machine I must convert to 150 mm ports.

Most of my connections to the Clear Vue can be seen here https://www.woodworkforums.com/f200/m...chines-161166/

Currently, I still have the thicknesser/jointer running on 100 mm ports, and I'm collecting ideas on how to convert the machine to 150 mm ports.

So far as noise goes, I found that two sections of insulated HVAC duct worked wonders. Here are the results so far, all at 60 Hz:

1. Nothing on at all ... 5dB ... its a quiet shed.
2. Turn on the VSD (it hums) ... 10 dB
3. Turn on the Clear Vue:

• Naked ... no ductwork in and no exhaust ... 97 dB (ouch).
• 200mm HVAC duct to exhaust (about ten feet long) ... 78dB
• Add 300mm duct over the top of the 200 mm duct to the 1.5 M of duct inside shop ... 66 dB.
• Wrap three layers of thin polyester insulation (off-cuts) around blower ... 62dB

See https://www.woodworkforums.com/f200/s...52/index2.html for more detail.

Cheerio!

Originally Posted by BobL

650 CFM sounds like a spec for a 1HP unit. If you are using 100 mm ducting you won't have 650 but more like 325 CFM.

The absolute mimimim HP needed to reach the minimum BP spec of 1000 cfm at 4000 FPM is
- using a 2 HP DC
- with a minimum of a 5" diam blower to filter bag connection
- removing the 4" DC ports and using 6" ducting for no more than a couple of metres
- modifying the collection port of machines to accept the 6" ducting
- no chip collectors in between the collection point and the impeller.

If you want to use longer ducting runs and/or put the DC outside the shed a minimum of 3HP is needed.

Hi Bob
I have the basic Jet 1hp model fitted with a dust dog micro filter. I naively thought this would be OK -
providing I only connected one machine at a time. The dust extractor usually sits close to a 12 inch exhaust fan. And I also use a Sundstrom mask. This is OK for short periods but I notice the workshop gets covered in fine dust.

My conclusion is that that this type of dc is a health hazard because woodworkers are lulled into a false sense of security by large wood shavings being convincingly removed, but dangerous fine dust insidiously penetrates the microfilter and gets pumped continuously back into the air!

Noting the above, I try to use the dc for only short periods.......with exhaust fan running all the time!

Wood turning has raised the stakes significantly with fine dust generated by sanding...... so a small dc like mine is not up to the job.

I cringe when I watch the excellent Richard Rafan videos where vast amounts of dust is generated when the master uses scrapers to hollow.......and then he "blows" the dust to expose the finished surface....with no dust extraction running.

So I conclude a serious cyclone is the way to go .....but I am staggered at how much air you need to move to be "safe". Looks like either you build one from scratch ....... do-able but time consuming or consider the Clearview at two and a half grand plus ducting/power cabling - probably close to three and a half grand!

Maybe Chris is running some Christmas specials?

Originally Posted by warmtone

. . . . .So I conclude a serious cyclone is the way to go .....but I am staggered at how much air you need to move to be "safe". Looks like either you build one from scratch ....... doable but time consuming or consider the Clearview at two and a half grand plus ducting/power cabling - probably close to three and a half grand!

Maybe Chris is running some Christmas specials?

A serious cyclone is very nice but not essential to obtain 1000 CFM at 4000 FPM, especially in most Aussie climates where venting outside the shed does not remove all the warm air inside a shed such as our northern hemisphere brothers require during their winter. If you can vent outside then, for a small to medium size shed a a 3HP unit will do the job provided it can handle the 6" ducting directly to the impeller.

What is essential for either a large DC or large cyclone is 6" or greater ducting and dust ports to match - which you will have to do yourself as very few machines have them as stock.

Originally Posted by John Samuel

David,

Very interested to see how you connected up the combo thicknesser/jointer. Just installed a CV1800 myself, and this is the last machine I must convert to 150 mm ports.

Most of my connections to the Clear Vue can be seen here https://www.woodworkforums.com/f200/m...chines-161166/

Currently, I still have the thicknesser/jointer running on 100 mm ports, and I'm collecting ideas on how to convert the machine to 150 mm ports.

So far as noise goes, I found that two sections of insulated HVAC duct worked wonders. Here are the results so far, all at 60 Hz:

1. Nothing on at all ... 5dB ... its a quiet shed.
2. Turn on the VSD (it hums) ... 10 dB
3. Turn on the Clear Vue:

• Naked ... no ductwork in and no exhaust ... 97 dB (ouch).
• 200mm HVAC duct to exhaust (about ten feet long) ... 78dB
• Add 300mm duct over the top of the 200 mm duct to the 1.5 M of duct inside shop ... 66 dB.
• Wrap three layers of thin polyester insulation (off-cuts) around blower ... 62dB

See https://www.woodworkforums.com/f200/s...52/index2.html for more detail.

Cheerio!

Hi John

At this stage I haven't converted the ports to 150 mm and just using the standard 100mm. I have used 225 storm water pvc for the main lines (actually measures 250mm), then 150mm branches to the machines. Very impressed by your conversions.

Cheers

David

I was wandering if anyone in Melbourne has installed one of these units and would be happy to allow me to have a look at the installation and discuss the joys of optimizing performance?

Happy to supply the beer or a bottle of good wine!

Brian

Originally Posted by warmtone

I was wandering if anyone in Melbourne has installed one of these units and would be happy to allow me to have a look at the installation and discuss the joys of optimizing performance?

Happy to supply the beer or a bottle of good wine!

Brian

Not in Melbourne, but you are most welcome in Deniliquin!

Originally Posted by d5k

Not in Melbourne, but you are most welcome in Deniliquin!

Hi David
Thanks for the kind offer. ....... A pity you're so far away!

But there's a chance I might end up doing a trip to the Murray over the holidays so it's

a possibility.

Meanwhile I plan to give Chris a call and have a chat re shipping costs and ducting logistics

Brian

Originally Posted by warmtone

Hi David
Thanks for the kind offer. ....... A pity you're so far away!

But there's a chance I might end up doing a trip to the Murray over the holidays so it's

a possibility.

Meanwhile I plan to give Chris a call and have a chat re shipping costs and ducting logistics

Brian

No worries, give me a call if you are in the area. 0418 645 356

Cheers

Chris should be able to put you onto a Melbourne installation. Surely there is at least one.

The Clear Vue is not cheap ... but it is very good and it still might be your cheapest solution.

When I was choosing a system I considered a 3HP dusty, as BobL suggested. If I chose a Clear Vue, I could put it inside (very small footprint) and vent it outside. If I chose a 3HP dusty, it needed to go outside (to keep all the very fine dust that exits the filters outside), meaning building its own shed for noise control and protection from the weather. In my case, the cost of any sort of shed made the 3HP dusty more expensive than the Clear Vue.

I chose the Clear Vue. BobL and others soon convinced me that conquering the fine dust was mission critical, and the Clear Vue was the cheapest solution for me. I understand BobL had a lot of the material already to hand, so building a shed for his dusty was not so expensive. I had nothing, and needed to buy everything for a shed.

Guys,

When you upgrade your DC system and need 150 mm pipe and fittings, you might like to consider Total Eden as your supplier.

They were 40% cheaper than any of my local plumbing suppliers, for both pipe and fittings. That makes a big difference to cost.

They have a number of branches (I used their Strathpine branch in QLD), and I don't know if their pricing is this keen everywhere, but it seems that they are worth a look.

Originally Posted by John Samuel

Chris should be able to put you onto a Melbourne installation. Surely there is at least one.
The Clear Vue is not cheap ... but it is very good and it still might be your cheapest solution.
When I was choosing a system I considered a 3HP dusty, as BobL suggested. If I chose a Clear Vue, I could put it inside (very small footprint) and vent it outside. If I chose a 3HP dusty, it needed to go outside (to keep all the very fine dust that exits the filters outside) . . . . .

My initial motivation for venting/placing any DC outside a shed was an understanding that most DC filter efficiencies were A MAJOR part of the DC problem ie they would let too much fine dust back into a shed. However, after measuring the efficiency of the filters from 23 DCs it appears that this is only really a problem for DCs using cloth bags. For DCs with needle felt (NF) and pleated filters (PF) this is not as big an issue as I first thought.

The BIG issues appear to be;
1) Leaks.
I have measured some PF and NF filters with >99% efficiencies for all particle sizes but they had serious leaks. Most leaks are caused by rucking of the plastic bag around the DC housing/bag clip, or problems with sealing of chip catchers. The best DCs have plastic bags that utilize the pressure of the DC to force the bag up tight against the DC housing. (The possibility of) Leaks is still a very good reason to locate or vent a DC outside, but the number of leaks I have seen have been so visually obvious makes me wonder if users are paying much attention to their DCs.

2) Failure to capture dust at source. This is primarily caused by lack of flow (narrow or poorly located machine ports, narrow ducting)