Thread: On my way to a clearvue

Just on this topic, I sent Bill's plans to a sheet metal place and got a quote for approx $900 Inc GST for the cyclone with 6 inch inlet. I've already got a 3hp 3ph dust collector so I'll be making my own unit in the coming months with the outlet going outside the shed.

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Originally Posted by Fergiz01

Just on this topic, I sent Bill's plans to a sheet metal place and got a quote for approx $900 Inc GST for the cyclone with 6 inch inlet. I've already got a 3hp 3ph dust collector so I'll be making my own unit in the coming months with the outlet going outside the shed.

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How big is the impeller that you intend to use? You have to remember that a cyclone works by being inefficient and that is one reason a 15" impeller is used. Somewhere in the archives of BP's site he mentions he started with a 14" impeller and abandoned the idea pretty quickly.

I got a $50 particle counter from AliExpress recently.

No idea on accuracy of my unit. Same unit others have used, including BobL I believe (could be wrong)

Look on AliExpress for "PM2.5.detector"

I bought a PM2.5 detector recently on Banggood. The one Peter Millard on YouTube reviewed. I love it. I'm sure there are more accurate ones on the market but it gives me an idea for the first time of the level of particles in the air in my workshop.

First step I think is to install exhaust fan/s. Is it worth installing larger i.e 300-400 mm fans up to about 2000m3/hour or just go with bathroom style.

It doesn't matter what you use as long as you can get close to the 20 room air changes per hour

I would like to be able to monitor air quality but choosing a particle counter seems tricky- the cheap ebay types seem no longer available clearvue lists one for about $600 is it any good. Serious ones seem to cost thousands.

There's heaps on ebay - do a search form PM2.5 particle detector.

I would like to vent outside but the only logical way to do that would be to run a duct for some distance 6-10m under the house before exiting away from workshop door and neighbours. Can you do this?

Yes - this will also quieten it down A FAIR BIT.

ok thanks Bob, I' m worried about the noise as it's a small workshop. I believe it also reduces the noise if you mount on a separate stand rather than on a wall any other suggestions for noise reduction? The work area is small but has a high ceiling. Cheers David

Glad I wasn't kicked of the forum for misspelling Bill Pentz's name. I have a few more questions now that my planning has progressed. Hopefully have attached sketch of workshop for clarity. it is a small space with double height ceiling off the side of a three car garage with a wall / walkway in between.The rest of the garage has a low ceiling . My planer/thicknesser lives at the other end of the garage. Originally I planned to only have the clearvue connected to the machines in the main workshop and have a separate de for the thicknesser at the other end of the garage. I've now changed my mind and figure that as the thicknesser is mobile I might as well run a duct into the garage as well- it will have a few corners and maybe go through a wall but should be doable. My question is should I go to the cv max rather than cv 1800 as there will be longer run and more bends/joins. ? I'm not that wild about needing 225mm ducting/ fittings as it's a huge cost difference esp fittings. My next question is when going round corners am I better to use dwv 90 degrees or slow turn with 45s seems to be some varying opinions on this. Finally I plan to vent exhaust to outside and the best way to do this would be under and across to the other side of the house where there is no near neighbour. It would involve a long and totrtuous run probably with hvac is that a problem ? cheers David
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The main reason for using 225mm ducting is if you run simultaneously run multiples machines. If not you can do it all in 150mm.

So would there still be an advantage to the cvmax if you necked it straight down to 150 mm?

Originally Posted by Dave.w

So would there still be an advantage to the cvmax if you necked it straight down to 150 mm?

Not really - both machines @50Hz can only pull the same~1225 CFM through a 150 mm duct, ~1470 CFM AT 60Hz,

My previous post should have had another couple of caveats. Apart from multiple users, the other reason for needing bigger pipes and more flow is if you are extracting from a BIG machine like a 1200mm drum sander, OR if you have a large shed so you need long ducting runs but with your size shed I can't see that being a problem.

Originally Posted by Fergiz01

Just on this topic, I sent Bill's plans to a sheet metal place and got a quote for approx $900 Inc GST for the cyclone with 6 inch inlet. I've already got a 3hp 3ph dust collector so I'll be making my own unit in the coming months with the outlet going outside the shed.

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The 3hp motor will not be reliable in service due to a 15" impeller needing a bit over 3hp to drive it. After many years of selling CV's Nd advising owners I would never use a single phase motor on a dust extractor as it limits the operator in getting the full value and performance from it. A 3 phase motor run by a VFD has control over speed, easier remote control, Low current start, kinder on the machine mechanically & noise is more easily dealt with at night etc. If noise is a factor a 16" impeller run at a lower could help mitigate the noise along with some sound suppression. My direct involvement with these machines for the last ten years has persuaded me that the Americans do it all wrong using single phase. We in Australia have always used 3 phase with only a few exceptions where 415V was available directly.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

The 3hp motor will not be reliable in service due to a 15" impeller needing a bit over 3hp to drive it. After many years of selling CV's Nd advising owners I would never use a single phase motor on a dust extractor as it limits the operator in getting the full value and performance from it. A 3 phase motor run by a VFD has control over speed, easier remote control, Low current start, kinder on the machine mechanically & noise is more easily dealt with at night etc. If noise is a factor a 16" impeller run at a lower could help mitigate the noise along with some sound suppression. My direct involvement with these machines for the last ten years has persuaded me that the Americans do it all wrong using single phase. We in Australia have always used 3 phase with only a few exceptions where 415V was available directly.

The motor is 3 phase, but I haven't checked the size of the impeller yet. I'm still very much in the planning phase, and may have to look at other options if my motor and impeller aren't big enough to incorporate a cyclone.

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A 2 pole 3HP motor at 50Hz (2800 rpm) suits about a 12-13" impeller. If the same motor is attached to a bigger impeller the motor will still try to turn at 2800 rpm and hence move more air BUT to do that it will usually end up drawing a current greater than its spec. The motor will eventually over heat and die. That's why bigger impellers need bigger motors.

Running a 3P motor at higher speeds using a VFD will move more air but the motor will also draw more current. A 3HP motor at 50Hz under full load typically draws ~9.5A if that is increased to 60Hz the current rises (brown line in graph) to about 13.5 A (~40%) which will also damage the motor.


The way around this is to use a bigger motor so a 4 or more HP motor should be used.

Read hear about how I upgraded mine to be able to do this.
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DaveW,

Thought I'd add my experience. It might help. The folks at CV have done a lot of work to arrive at the current configurations. They work, so please be very careful departing from them in any way.

I bought a CV1800 from Chris about ten years ago. There were a few minor struggles to get it all assembled, and the sparky who wired it up left with the DOR going the wrong way. Thankfully, that was easy to fix.

But now I have had ten years of trouble free use. I barely think about the dust extraction system these days. It simply IS. My only regret is not buying a MAX so I could either reduce the Hz and also the noise, or run two machines at once, but these are minor concerns. Mind you, I like to remind Chris that I hold him accountable for this less than perfect outcome. A favourite feature of my set up is that it vents outside ... no filters or bags ... an excellent choice. The only thing I need to do is to empty the bin.

All the discussion about HP and impeller size reminds me that it is very easy for someone new to this type of equipment to make an expensive screw up. I recall well being a complete novice to dust extraction. Bill Pentz's pages were a great introduction. I read them all, several times. Nonetheless the main reason I have a great system is that I listened to BobL and Chris. They guided me through system selection, installation and the modification of machine ports. Please listen to these blokes carefully. They know what they are doing. We are fortunate that they come here to help others who have less expertise.