Thread: ClearVue CV1700 install

I got two requests for more photos.

This is a better shot of the link between the dust collector shed and my shop. I sealed the hole with something that's like industrial Silly Putty.

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This is the inside transition from the duct to the cyclone. The PVC pipe fit in the inlet very nicely. I still need to seal the drywall hole somehow.

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This is a picture of the bottom of the dust collector bin lid. You can see the weatherstripping, blocks that ensure it's on the can properly, and bungee cords used to hold the lid onto the can.

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This weekend I hooked up the exhaust. Out of the cyclone I use an 8" adjustable elbow, then a 8" to 10" transition, then 10" R8 flex duct.

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The duct drupes down and then exits about the same level as the cyclone. Right now I don't have a good way to measure the back pressure this creates. However I figure I'm going from 6" PVC (28.3 in^2 cross section) to 10" flex duct (78.5 in^2 cross section), so surely the back pressure couldn't be that big.

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I still need to make a hood to cover the exhaust hole. With that in place I can have more definitive sound levels. But the initial reading was 95 dB, 10' from the open door with no flex hooked up. With the flex hooked up and exhausting out the other side of the building I think it's about 62dB from the same spot. On other side of the building, less than 5' from the exhaust was 72 dB. That's with the exhaust just shooting straight out. I should have some more measurements this week, but I'm happy with the sound levels.

Mark

Right now I have a very short piece of 10" duct just shooting straight out the back of the building horizontally. I was planning to build a wooden box around it, kind of like a wooden dryer vent.

But I had a new idea. If I attached an adjustable elbow and then a 5' section of 10" straight duct, I could send the air toward the ground. Then I could put a wireless hot wire anemometer in that 5' section of duct and get air flow measurements inside my shop on my phone. I would use snaplock pipe, which isn't perfectly round and the sensor would be in just one location, so the CFM calculations won't be precise, but it's probably good enough for relative measurements.

Another choice is a pitot tube connected to a gauge, which I could read by looking out the window.

Having never used either instrument, any reason either one of those plans wouldn't work?

Mark

Just a warning about your bin - the modern ones have thinner walls and mine got sucked in a bit, so I ended up making an mdf box since I have height limitations that meant I couldn't use a 44 gallon drum. Anyway see how you go! It's looking good.

Originally Posted by PFH

Just a warning about your bin - the modern ones have thinner walls and mine got sucked in a bit

I'm not sure if the fact that hasn't happened means there is a leak or if this trash can is slightly stronger. Also, my empty can did not lift off the ground like I have heard some describe.

Mark

The sound control I implemented for my Clear Vue worked very well. This is a cyclone with a 6" inlet and a 16" impeller running at 60hz (single phase 240v in the US).

The cyclone is in its own little building and it exhausts to the ouside. This is what the exhaust looks like.

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From the spot above, which is about 7' from the exhaust (as far as I could get away), the sound level is 62.3 dB. (I measured using the NIOSH sound level app on an iPhone for 30 seconds. This is the LAeq value. All the subsequent measurements are the same.)

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From the spot above, which is about 10' from the exhaust, the sound level measurement was 62.0 dB. At this spot I could feel some wind, from the exhaust, so that may have impacted the sound reading a little.

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From the opposite side of the building, about 10' from the door, the sound level was 58.3 dB.

For comparison, my neighbor's air conditioner, which happened to run today, from my yard, through a 6' wooden fence was about 60 dB.

Everyone has noted that it seems quiet. The noise is not objectionable at all.

Now inside the shop it is louder.

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In the photo above I'm backed up against the opposite wall of the shop, about 8' away. The 6" pipe pointing straight down is the only open blast gate. The reading at that location is 74.8 dB. Since the cyclone is in its own building, this is just the sound of air going through the open pipe.

Here are the construction details of the shed:

Floor is 1-1/8" OSB subfloor (Advantech) on top of 2x6 floor joists, spaced 16" on center. Under the floor, between the floor joists is R15 mineral wool.

The walls are frame 16" on center with one set of bracing between the studs to make them more rigid. The call construction from inside out is
* 1/2" drywall, joints taped.
* R-15 mineral wool (3.5" thick).
* 7/16" OSB sheathing with a coating to make the sheets airtight and water resistant. (GP ForceField is the product.) All the seams are taped to make the building as air tight as possible.
* 3/8" air gap (aka rainscreen), which I created by nailing strips of plywood to the sheathing.
* LP SmartSide lap siding, which some kind of manufactured wood that is about 3/8" thick.

The ceiling is vaulted (no attic). The ceiling joists are about 8.25" tall, spaced 16" on center. From the inside out the ceiling construction is:
* 1/2" drywall, joints taped.
* R-30 mineral wool (7" of thickness)
* 5mm plywood, which was sealed air tight.
* 1" air gap that is vented low and high.
* 7/16" OSB sheathing, same as the walls, taped at the seams.
* 3/4" air gap made with battens.
* sheet metal roof.

The door is an inexpensive, steel door they claim is insulated, but heat and cold transmit through the door easily. The door has weatherstripping that is not perfectly sealed.

The air comes into the building from a 6" duct that goes to the shop and leaves the building through a 10" duct pictured above. The 8" exhaust from the cyclone goes through the following transitions:
* 90 degree bend using an 8" adjustable elbow.
* 8" to 10" transition
* about 11.5' of 10" R8 flex duct, which includes a 180 degree bend (see picture below).
* 90 degree bend using 10" adjustable elbow.
* 12" of 10" straight duct through the wall.
* 90 degree bend using 10" adjustable elbow outside the building.

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I appreciate the wisdom of this group that made this a successful project.

Mark

I attached a 5' length of 10" straight pipe to the exhaust to measure airflow.

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The exhaust pipe is propped up with a sawhorse to minimize back pressure from air hitting the ground.

Measurements were done through two 1/2" holes, drilled 90 degrees from each other in the middle of the pipe lengthwise.

I used a Testo 405i hot wire anemometer. The certification note in mine said it read 7.9 m/s when the reference was 8.0 m/s.

I set the app to circular duct with 10" diameter. I inserted the probe all the way into the pipe, activated it, and then slowly pulled it back, turning it off before the sensor exited. For each of the measurements below I did that 3 times in each hole, so six readings total and let the app averaged all the numbers. I know this is not as accurate because it will overweight the center of the duct, but it sure was easy. I got consistent readings.

Temperature of the air in the duct was about 83F (28C).

With all the blast gates open I get 1104 cfm (1876 m^3/hr). Is this number good? Should I work to reduce back pressure from my muffler?

My bandsaw is the furthest from the cyclone, so I hooked it up entirely and measured the air flow.

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I used so much flex because my shop space is quite limited and the only reasonable place to put the saw was on the opposite wall from the ducts. Going up and over seemed too difficult and involved lots of bends. With the flex I can clear the walkway when not in use.

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With the bandsaw fully hooked up, the airflow was 539 cfm (915 m^3/hr).

The cabinet has very few no air holes! I disconnected the two 4" flex lines from the saw and then the airflow was 754 cfm (1282 m^3/hr).

Then I disconnected the 6" flex from the rigid pipe so there was no air going through flex. That reading was 918 cfm (1560 m^3/hr).

My current plan is to just use the saw and see how much dust is collected. The first step for improving would be to remove the top connection, leave the bottom connection in place, and get the top connection to suck open air right at the guides.

Here's a picture of the ineffectiveness of my previous dust collector.

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There's just a small slot to for air from the top connection to reach the guides.

Mark

Tonight I was cleaning off my workbench using a 4" flex hose. The remote that starts and stops the cyclone got sucked up before I even knew what was happening.

Mark

I've seen people show off by sucking up tape measures but the remote is a first.

Pete

I read warnings on here about cyclones sucking up rags, which get stuck in the impeller and then you have to disassemble the cyclone to get the rag out.

Tonight I was cleaning up the shop using a 4" flex hose. When I used this previously, I had two 4" ports open, one for the flex hose and a second just to give the cyclone more air. I decided to try it with just the hose port open. I could tell the suction was stronger.

Near where I was cleaning up, I spotted a brightly color rag. I thought, "better be careful." About that time, the rag was in the flex.

Ah! I got to shut off the blast gate to stop the air flow and the rag is caught on the blast gate. Lucky break!

I close the blast gate, which dislodges the rag and away it goes.

I turn off the cyclone. Mortified, I go check on the cyclone.

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The rag had stopped just short of entering the cyclone. I was able to fish it out by inserting a wire coat hanger through the bottom of the cyclone.

If this were any cyclone other than ClearVue, I would have no idea where the rag was and would probably start disassembling ductwork plus cyclone.

Mark

I need some advice.

As you can read previously in this thread, I originally had a muffler made from R8, 10" flexible HVAC duct that looked like this:

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My measurements at the exhaust, which I detail above, are a sound level of about 62 dB and air flow of about 1104 CFM with all the blast gates open. More recently I re-did the airflow measurement with all the blast gates open and got about 1033 CFM. I'm not sure why it is different, but I have made some slight duct changes inside the shop.

Because I'm too curious for my own good, I wanted to see if I could increase the air flow, so I replaced sections of the flex duct with straight pipe. Here's what it looked like before I hooked it up.

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I used sections of flex duct to sloppily connect the straight pipe. I thought I could attach the flex duct to the 8" adjustable elbow coming out of the cyclone, but that didn't work great. Nevertheless, I got it hooked up.

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After making these changes, the sound level in the same spot where I got 62 dB before is now 77 dB. There is a high pitched whine that sounds like it is coming from inside the building, through the wall. So we have learned the thin-walled straight duct is not great at containing the sound.

And the airflow reading I get at the exhaust? One time I got 1160 CFM. Then I went to dinner and came back and got 1086 CFM and then 1094 CFM.

Things that I know could be impacting the measurement:
1. In both mufflers I did not seal the adjustable elbows. The new muffler has two more adjustable elbows and I assume they leak, so I could be loosing air flow from that.
2. I am assuming the air I'm measuring is pretty turbulent, even in a 10" duct. I know, the duct should be longer.
3. The duct I'm using to measure is not perfectly round. This is snaplock duct and I can see that the duct is not perfectly round and as it gets banged around, the shape changes.

I want my hobby to be woodworking, not dust collection. I'm not succeeding.

My plan for today is to remove the straight pipe and put back up the flex on the assumption that I might have gotten a little more air flow with the straight pipe, but with too much noise and too much air leakage in my shed. (Note this is a dedicated dust collector shed, so the exhaust air leakage is not a serious health concern.) Also, my air flow measurements appear to be too inconsistent to be trusted. So I'm thinking I would just put the flex back up, put away the Testo 405i, and get back to woodworking.

Does that sound reasonable, or is there something big I'm missing?

Mark

My last post I said I needed advice and then posted it in the middle of the night in Australia and didn't even ask a question. Oh well.

Today I took out muffler 2.0 and put in muffler 3.0.

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This muffler is shorter than my first one, which gives me a little more roof in the shed. I propped it up on a little shelf to take some weight off the two connections.

I measured the air flow at the exhaust twice and got 1124 CFM and 1096 CFM, so somewhere around 1100, which I think is a little bit better than the previous length which went all the way to the floor. The sound level went up about 2 dB to about 64 dB, which is not significant.

So to summarize, using an R8 10" HVAC flex duct cuts the sound level of the exhaust outside the building significantly. If you have the room, a 12" duct would probably be even better.

Now back to woodworking.

Mark