Thread: ClearVue Cyclones

Originally Posted by Hugh Reid

Is anyone interested in buying a cyclone built to Bill Pentz specs?
I'm about to order one from Clearvue Cyclones (clearvuecyclones.com)
but shipping is the same (virtually) for one tonne (19 cyclones and motors) as for one.
Check out website and get back to me
Ed at clearvue will do the cyclone package without the motor (5hp,1ph 20 amp) for us$695 as three phase is a better option (although i plan to run a 3hp motor untill i get 3ph.)
on top of cyclone and shipping you still need filters and a trash can (and 6" ducting) but i've been breathing dust for 4 years now and it's starting to slow me down
I'm in victoria 80 km from Melbourne

So, the $695 is for the cyclone and the blower impellor/housing only? Hmmmm.
Why don't you think about making a cyclone yourself or having one welded up. There is a manufacturer in Hedelburg that has an impeller the correct size and specs. A 'back of the envelope' calculation was around $1,000 total for locally sourced.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your deal is $695 + say $200 for shipping if you get six guys. + motor + filters. Looks like $1600 or so?

Greg

yes it would be nice to just buy one but i would be worthwhile just building one to Bills planes, but be cheap!, you don't have to build one that looks like it came from a pro shop, just use what you can pick up for free or cheap, there are heaps of guys who have done this. i am infact going to do one myself shortly , for the same reason, been putting up with dust for too long, i have a handfull of materials i picked up for free that wiil give me a start, such as a huge piece of sheet metal that was a sign, perfect for all the sheet work on the cyclone, ducting from a recycler, i have a DC already so i'v got the impeller and housing...

i'll be posting pics when i start...

I did think about making one, but i don't enjoy sheetmetalwork
I then approched about 10 dust control firms about building one to Bill's design. Eight weren't interested and tried to sell me reverse pulse dust collectors (about$8000-10000).
Only one would concider making a cyclone, one wants to use their own design and wants nearly $4000 ($1000 for the filters) and 15 months after first approaching them are still too busy to do it.
Yes I could get someone to do the cyclone in sheetmetal but it would be at least $500 and probably $700 one estimate). i was quoted $375 for a 13" impellor

ClearVue want US$895 for
-cyclone $375
-blower housing $95
-transition (to filters) $35
-6 x 6" blast gates $96
-hanging bracket $35
-14" impellor $165
-5hp leeson (us made) motor $242
That comes to $1043

Without the Motor it's US$695

I think it's good value, but postage is the same again (fedex 2-3 days)
Sea freight has a minimum rate for one tonne

filter vary depending on what you go for
-4x 0.2 micron donaldson torit "fibra-web" will cost $1000 (AUD)
-a felt bag outside the workshop maybe $100
- 2x 0.5 micron torit cartridge filters of good quality about $400 to 500

There may also be GST and some incidentals, live money transfers, on-shipping, storage, customs inspections, blah blah blah

Think it over, there's not much else out there that works

Greg,
Any chance of getting the name of the guys that make the impellor.

And the prices are US$, so the cyclone will be over $919 + GST + Import Duty + freight + the rest. Thats a lot of money to be able to watch the dust. Personally I would be to busy making it to watch it disappear!

Yeah, on second thought, the total would be over $1,000 with shipping, so it would be more like $1400 to your door without motor, brackets, ducting, filter.

Two things: at the last wood working show in Melbourne there was a guy from Victoria who had a killer DE for $4,000. It was 7.5 hp 3 phase, but with a proprietary impeller. (I sensed the touch of an expert aerodynamicist).

This unit would pull the chrome off of a trailer hitch. It didn't have an effective range so much as an event horizon, like a black hole. It was amazing, and I am not easily amazed. They even designed points in the impeller to tap off for vacuum hoses 2" too, and they seemed as good as any vacuum I have ever used.

Getting back to the impeller guy, I have an off-forum contact who has all of the details. He and I may make two units to offset the learning curve and the set-up time. I'll get the details and post them. I recall that he said they have filters' too.

In the Pentz design cyclone I don't think the filter is all that critical-a truck air cleaner is probably all you need. I've got a couple from a D-9 Caterpillar saved up here for experimentation. I may just choose to duct the waste air outside, as my shop is unheated, so there's no loss of energy.

..And this leads us to a group project. If this clearvue thing doesn't fly, we should think about getting some sheet metal place to take on a bunch of cyclones for a group. The impeller that I referred to from Heidelburg is correctly sized for the Pentz cyclone, and I gather Bill Pentz himself has given it a thumbs up.

The other thing to consider is that the impeller and housing is optimised for a certain RPM, and smaller motors will spin it at the rated RPM, but quickly burn out if operated with too many ports open. I am planning to use a 5hp three phase running from my phase converter, but this will mean a dedicated 40A + circuit to run two motors simultaneously. Hello, sparky.

Hugh,

I was interested in a Clear-Vue cyclone as I have been considering the issue of dust extraction for some time and reading both this site and Bill Pentz's webpages. There are a number of themes in the area of dust extraction and here are the thoughts I have at the moment.

Reduced Filter Cleaning
The major advantage offered by a cyclone is its two-stage approach to dust collection. The first stage removes most (nearly all for a Pentz design) of the dust/chips meaning that very little cleaning of the filters is required. This fact reduces the maintenance/cleaning required to prevent any significant back pressure building up through dirty filters.

Electricity Supply Issues
I'm not sure how sensitive the performance of the Clear-Vue cyclone is to the change in horsepower of the motor (5hp -> 3hp). If you use Bill's spreadsheet and plug in the different figures, I note that the diameter of the cyclone changes. Even if you use an Australian 5hp motor, the impeller rotation speed will most likely be different (3400rpm ->2800rpm) due to the difference between the US and Australian electricity supply (60Hz vs 50Hz). My thinking is that this will also affect cyclone performance and the amount of dust that goes through to the filters. It is possible to alter the speed of the motor but I though this to be too difficult either through electronic means or using a pulley system.

A 20amp circuit would need to installed by an electrician as would a three phase circuit (if your house/workshop has a three phase supply available from your electricity supply company) unless your workshop already has this sort of electricity supply installed. This might be another expense.

Ducting Size
In an attempt to improve my dust extraction, I have upgraded my ducting to 150mm diameter pipes as Bill has recommended. My current dust collector is a Carbatec model theoretically capable of 1700cfm although I don't put too much stock in the cfm figure. I didn't get quite the increase in airflow that I had hoped for but I suspect that this is due to the back pressure from the dust collector bags. I could retrofit the collector with a pleated filter to increase the surface area and hence decrease the back pressure.

Ability to Recirculate the Air
A reasonable dust extractor can remove room air quite quickly. A 1200cfm extractor could completely empty out a one-car garage's air in less than 2 minutes. If you work in a workshop with heated and/or cooled air, the ability to return the air to your workshop is a big plus. In Australia, I don't see this as such a big factor so while I would return the air to the workshop if I could easily, venting it to the outside is no big loss (happy for you to have a different view here if your climate is more extreme). Venting the air externally also removes the concern over the really fine wood dust that most health experts are concerned with.

If a standard dust collector is used along with high performance pleated filters, I can't see why the unit couldn't be located in the workshop. The only downside would probably be the need to turn the cleaning handle on the filter a few times a day to prevent the back-pressure building up.

Costs
I have seen single phase, three horsepower, cyclone dust collectors from MWE in Sydney for $1320. I doubt this has as good a level of performance as one of Bill's designs but at least it is locally supported.

I understand from reading some messages here that filters are available although they are quite expensive (A$270? each). As two are recommended, it will add significantly to the cost. Added to this will be the shipping costs along with Customs duty and GST. On top of this you will have to supply a motor.

If the cyclone is US$695 -> A$1070, add duty and GST (~12%) (1070 x 1.12) A$1200, then add a A$400-600 for a motor, $500 for filters and then shipping costs, I would think the all-up cost would add up to at least $2300 not including any electrician's costs.

Summary
I too was attracted to the idea of buying a Clear-Vue cyclone but I dissuaded by two factors; cost and uncertainty of the performance impact of substituting an Australian motor for a US motor. Just my thinking - happy for you to correct me where you see fit.

Regards.

a monster cyclone would be great hey!!!, i only have a little workshop even though i do it full time, but in the future if i was to fit out a proper shop then a big cyclne would go in , and several grand spent on it would be peanuts compared to how valuable clean shop air is...if you have some money put aside for your toys then spend it and get the best you can and it will keep yoo dust free for the rest of your life...but shop around and research on the web at what's available in OZ...here is a homemade job that will create your own wind system! http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticle...llection.shtml

Originally Posted by Hugh Reid

I then approched about 10 dust control firms about building one to Bill's design.

Forget them, go to a sheet metal fabricator with Bills plans and get a price. It will be a lot cheaper.

Dan

My apologies for this belated contribution to this topic.

I also considered the ClearVue unit but decided against it because of the shipping costs.

As Dan suggests, in the end I opted to have the cyclone cone, upper cylinder and outlet chute rolled, seamed and welded by a local sheetmetal firm, at a cost of $300. I had quotes that ranged from that up to $700. The rolling of the cone (I went with a cone length ratio of 3) was beyond my skills and ready access to equipment, and the $300 seemed reasonable value. I could have done the chute and upper cylinder myself, but getting the sheetmetal firm to also do those and fabricate the three components together ensured that the cone was accurately completed to specification (as it turned out, to 1mm tolerance).

I constructed the air ramp, inlet, and cyclone outlet myself at an additional cost of about $48. Attaching the air ramp and inlet to the upper cylinder was the only tricky bit.

The completed cyclone is driven by a 3hp, 1800cfm, pleated filter set-up. It’s working well for me.

From my experience the previous contributions to this thread are all very sound, and Hobbit has some particularly valuable things to say if you are considering going down this pathway.

Neil

Let me toss my experience into the fray.

I was all set to purchase a Dust Gorilla from Onieda. Nothing really wrong with it, I could make it fit in my shed. The duct work would have been difficult but possible.

Then a store clerk asked, "Why spend $2600 when you're just a one man shop? Why not move the 4" (100mm) hose to the machine where you're working?"

So I spent $325 for a Jet dust collector and another $70 for the one micron bags from Penn State Industries. I've spent about $500 and the DC system works just great! I use a trash can separator and move a hose to the machine in use.

I realize that this wouldn't work in "The Dream Shed" or in a commercial environment. But for the single operator shed it is the ideal solution. Also in my shed, functionality is of primary importance. Money is only important when the price of the equipment is extraordinarilly high.

Originally Posted by gregoryq

Getting back to the impeller guy, I have an off-forum contact who has all of the details. He and I may make two units to offset the learning curve and the set-up time. I'll get the details and post them. I recall that he said they have filters' too. In the Pentz design cyclone I don't think the filter is all that critical-a truck air cleaner is probably all you need. I've got a couple from a D-9 Caterpillar saved up here for experimentation. I may just choose to duct the waste air outside, as my shop is unheated, so there's no loss of energy.

A thread dredge. Gregoryq did you get anywhere with this. I am after an impellor to build an extractor with? I want to build an extractor system and run it through a drum seperator, nothing fancy, just duct it straight to atmosphere out of the drum.

Mini,

Not sure on the quality, backward curve etc. but Hare & Forbes in Sydney do as a spare part a 13.5" metal impeller that I personally plan to use when I find the time and money to build my own cyclone.

Somewhere I have the part number which I will post once I find it. For memory it was like $72 which IMHO is an absolute bargain...

Hope this helps.

Scott in Peakhurst.