Thread: Clearvue install & shop layout - thoughts and feedback appreciated!

Originally Posted by riverbuilder

The planer has no room for infeed and out?

Machines are placed randomly at this stage - you're right, that planer/thicknesser will need to move to another spot, and swap with something else.

Originally Posted by riverbuilder

My opinion on opening up dust ports to 6” is dont bother.

Thank you - I assume you're referring specifically to the table saw in saying this, or do you hold that opinion across all machines (e.g. planer/thicknesser etc)?

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

Machines are placed randomly at this stage - you're right, that planer/thicknesser will need to move to another spot, and swap with something else.



Thank you - I assume you're referring specifically to the table saw in saying this, or do you hold that opinion across all machines (e.g. planer/thicknesser etc)?

I have 4” on everything, except the martin tablesaw it is 5”, it all works well, never have blockages, never have dust. My 12” jointer and 12” thicknesser have a 4” run of about 15 feet into the 10” main trunk and it works great. The spindle moulder has a 6” drop from the trunk into a gate then a 4” flexi into a hood that sits over the head and the only excretion is what comes from under the table and i just sweep it up as it’s chips anyways. My dust collector is a big 5.5 hp system with about 10 long socks and a drum underneath and the socks have a shaking motor that runs for 4 minutes after you shut the system down. I take the two 4” flexis off the planer and jointer and put them on the drum sander and close all the gates except for those two amd the only dust is the stuff that falls off the conveyer belt, which I haven’t got around to sorting out, I could easily put a shop vac on that to collect it. On garage type machines, for hobby use, 4” is plenty of ducting, especially if you’ve only got a 2hp dust collector sucking through it. That’s my thoughts.

Just a few thoughts to keep you pondering your layout:

1. Good that you've incorporated the 5" straight intake pipe. Try to hold onto that, and compromise by shortening it a bit if you must.
2. If I'm understanding your cathedral ceiling comment correctly, do not insert a 25-degree bend to following your ceiling. Keep you duct straight and level. You'll be adding a lot of unnecessary resistance to your air flow.
3. Two 45-degree elbows to make a 90-degree turn will add more resistance than a single long sweep 90-degree elbow. If you can source a long sweep 90 (i.e., the radius of the turn is greater than 1.5 times the radius of the pipe), you will be better off.
4. Are you wedded to having your table saw in the lower right corner? The dust port will be towards the wall under the extension table and will be hard to get dust collection to it in your current design. If your table saw is the heart of your shop, as it is mine, why not place it where you show your mobile carts then drop a 6" duct to it from the ceiling?
5. 16 meters with a single 90-degree turn will not be a problem for the Clear Vue cyclone. You'll have strong airflow at the end of the run. However, if you make two 90-degree turns to wrap around a third wall, you'll be adding a lot of resistance.
6. Consider what could happen if you moved the dust extractor to the back corner where you show your Planer/Thicknesser, then from that back right corner run a main trunk line diagonally across the room the the front left corner, with 45 degree wyes off of it. Consider this a mind exercise to see if you can eliminate 90-degree turns entirely.
7. Consider a pod of machines in the center of your shop where one 6" drop can then be branched with blast gates to serve 3 or more machines in that pod. E.g., table saw, planer/thicknesser, bandsaw.
8. If you purchase the Clear Vue, remember that the standard orientation is with the intake on the right hand side of the cyclone body when viewed from above. Thus, in your drawing, the duct cannot run immediately against the left hand wall of your shop as you've drawn it. If you reverse the locations of your dust extractor and Planer/Thicknesser, then the piping can run against the wall as you've drawn it.
9. As you continue playing with the design, start thinking about where each machine has its exhaust port and how you will align the machine so that the air flow from that exhaust port is in the same direction as the air flow into your dust extractor. Be sure to avoid reverse flows.

So, some mind exercises to play around with (open in new tab to view full size):

Mind Exercise 1.jpg

Mind exercise 2.jpg

As to 6" vs 4", run 6" to everything you can and open up the ports where the internal cabinet air flow can take advantage of it. There is a huge difference in fine dust collection by moving to 6". As to the table saw, it may have 3" or 4" internal flex hose or other air pathways that will limit the flow. If so, there's no point in opening up the cabinet to 6" if you'll still have to choke down to 3-4" in the internal piping.

Originally Posted by riverbuilder

I have 4” on everything, except the martin tablesaw it is 5”, it all works well, never have blockages, never have dust. My 12” jointer and 12” thicknesser have a 4” run of about 15 feet into the 10” main trunk and it works great. The spindle moulder has a 6” drop from the trunk into a gate then a 4” flexi into a hood that sits over the head and the only excretion is what comes from under the table and i just sweep it up as it’s chips anyways. My dust collector is a big 5.5 hp system with about 10 long socks and a drum underneath and the socks have a shaking motor that runs for 4 minutes after you shut the system down. I take the two 4” flexis off the planer and jointer and put them on the drum sander and close all the gates except for those two amd the only dust is the stuff that falls off the conveyer belt, which I haven’t got around to sorting out, I could easily put a shop vac on that to collect it. On garage type machines, for hobby use, 4” is plenty of ducting, especially if you’ve only got a 2hp dust collector sucking through it. That’s my thoughts.

I can't see the point of using a big (your words) 5.5hp DE and feeding it with small 100mm ducting. I find that DE gives back what is put into it and we all live with that and the effect it has on our health. I never debate this with anyone, your choice is not mine but that's life.

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

Side question - should I open the port to 150mm on the saw, or leave it at 100mm, using the remaining capacity to support an overhead extraction over the blade?

When installing my system Bill Pentz's page said use 5" to the table saw cabinet and 3" to the blade guard. Instead I ran 6" to the cabinet and 4" to the blade guard, but only because I didn't want to fool around with another two sizes of flexi and fittings. I reduced the flow to the blade guard a bit by making the cross sectional area of the riser from the blade guard equal to a 3" duct. I figured that would get the balance between airflow to the cabinet and the riser about right.

It works ... Table Saw Overhead Dust Collection.wmv - YouTube

I installed my CV1800 some years ago. I tested it before and after upgrading the machine ports and flexi to 6" (the ductwork was always 6"). The upgrade made a very big difference on most machines, especially the linisher, the drop saw and the table saw. The 4" machine ports were severely restricting the airflow. My jointer/thicknesser is the only machine that uses 4" flexy, because it's not possible to significantly increase the amount of air flowing into and through the machine. It is easily my dirtiest machine.

If you are interested the work done to upgrade machine ports/hoods is here. Making 150mm DC ports for workshop machines

With many thanks for all the information and feedback in this thread, I took some time (work got in the way too) and have done a complete redesign of the entire layout.

I have but one remaining question I hope someone can provide an answer to.

Traditionally, in the manuals, we tend to see a CV1800 laid out and mounted to a straight section of wall, which is perfectly logical.

What I would like to do is mount mine in a corner, and thus - if you take a look at the extract from the manual, below, I am wondering if it is possible to mount the whole unit as normal, but imagine now that I'm doing so in a corner with a wall coming toward us on the left side of the CV1800... the inlet is shown in a red box - can this be mounted on the CV1800 so that it points straight toward us instead of pointing left?

CV2.JPG

You bet. Here it is from the manual

Originally Posted by hurcorh

You bet. Here it is from the manual

Thank you very much indeed!

It's interesting - here's the page from the manual I have:

Intake.JPG

I've just realised I'm using the US manual - and have now found the AU manual, which is much clearer, and outlines exactly the information you posted Hurcorh, and what I've been missing.

Thank you so much!

The single biggest advantage Clearvue Cyclones have is the can be custom installed to suit the site. This is a low ceiling height installation.....

Low Ceiling Height- split system.JPGLow Ceiling 2.jpgLow Ceiling 3.jpg

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

The single biggest advantage Clearvue Cyclones have is the can be custom installed to suit the site. This is a low ceiling height installation.....

Super useful photos and example - because this also is part of my challenge - I need to get this in a 2.2m ceiling height. I had read that this was configurable, and had even gotten an addendum manual that details some of the options - but didn't quite realise it could be jigged around to that level!

Thank you for sharing these Chris

Midnight Man there have been a few Clear Vues installed on an angle to fit low headroom installations. The ones that were pictured in the ClearVue gallery are gone, a site upgrade a year or two ago. Here is a link to the defunct Fine Woodworking Forum Knots, that discussed it in a few places among the bickering. The cyclone stays as it was made so you could take it and install it conventionally in another shop. You might want to add some padded support under the body or cone so gravity doesn't pull on the upper end. It's worth considering.

Clear Vue Cyclone - FineWoodworking

Pete

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

What I would like to do is mount mine in a corner, and thus - if you take a look at the extract from the manual, below, I am wondering if it is possible to mount the whole unit as normal, but imagine now that I'm doing so in a corner with a wall coming toward us on the left side of the CV1800... the inlet is shown in a red box - can this be mounted on the CV1800 so that it points straight toward us instead of pointing left?

On the US website, they have dimensional drawings that are slightly different than the one in the manual.

https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/ass...nalDiagram.pdf

If the PDF doesn't work for some reason, here's the drawing that shows how both the inlet and filter stack can be rotated:

Screen Shot 2021-12-24 at 10.15.59 AM.png

Mark

Thanks for all the information gents!

One little detail I neglected to check - if I am putting this in an internal enclosure inside the shed, running it through filters and venting internally through a baffle box, what sort of exit size will be sufficient? My plans at the moment include an exit vent a little larger than double (2x) an 8" pipe (I'm using 6" as incoming ducting). Is that sufficient to not cause back pressure in the system?

Additionally to this, if this is inside an enclosure, as I'm sure some of you will have done, how are you keeping your motor cool?